Because We Need To Talk About It

MDubs · Oct 21, 2022

Fretworker
Me too. I wish I could talk. This thread is a sort of comfort, but I can't join in and open up. I had my support pet euthanised today. No, still can't. Hang in there everyone

You hang in there too; I’m sorry for the death of your support pet.

Fretworker · Oct 21, 2022

MDubs
You hang in there too; I’m sorry for the death of your support pet.

Thank you for your commiseration. It comes. It goes. Right now it's come again. But it will go. Thanks again.

Concretepuppy · Nov 1, 2022

Can we also talk about the mental health disorders that receive more sympathy than others, perhaps have a more sympathy-worthy image, important as it is to recognise the umbrella of mental ill-health conditions as something that should not be stigmatised, there does seem to be a league table of conditions based on the amount of attention they receive from non-suffering folk, the more socially acceptable conditions being the ones that don't require much time or effort on the part of the sympathy-giver, or disrupt their own little perfect world of immaculate-ness, like a millionaire throwing a £5 out of the window of his/her Ferrari at a homeless, the millionaire can comfortably continue their journey unimpeded while secure in the feeling they are a good person, to spend two nights a week in a soup kitchen feeding people would require some real world sacrifice which is usually rejected and justified with previous commitments getting in the way.
I'm not surprised by how things are, in fact i continually wish i was proven wrong, but time and again my prejudices are confirmed; people have become and are getting better at, pretending to care about others while really - the care giving and emojis only last as long as it does not, ever, interfere with their own little happy-places, which makes it very fake and shallow, not wanting to take part in this shallow little theatre of pretence is why i want nothing more to do with anything or anyone on this planet.

janice&fred · Nov 1, 2022

C Concretepuppy
I'm not surprised by how things are, in fact i continually wish i was proven wrong, but time and again my prejudices are confirmed; people have become and are getting better at, pretending to care about others while really - the care giving and emojis only last as long as it does not, ever, interfere with their own little happy-places, which makes it very fake and shallow, not wanting to take part in this shallow little theatre of pretence is why i want nothing more to do with anything or anyone on this planet.

While no one can argue about how you feel...you genuinely feel this way, you might consider expanding your world to include more people. People care. You're painting people in general with a very negative brush. Seems you might have not met enough genuine good ones yet but they're there. Plenty of them. No need to look very hard. For example, start with first responders to emergencies...car accidents, etc.

X350 XJR · Nov 1, 2022

janice&fred
While no one can argue about how you feel...you genuinely feel this way, you might consider expanding your world to include more people. People care. You're painting people in general with a very negative brush. Seems you might have not met enough genuine good ones yet but they're there. Plenty of them. No need to look very hard. For example, start with first responders to emergencies...car accidents, etc.

As the original poster of this thread and someone who battles the "hell in my head" of my mental illness daily, the negativity of depression coming all too easily, I have found that if I can find even the slightest goodness in my life, whether it be an act by someone else or something I create myself; simply holding the door open for someone or letting the person behind me go ahead of me in the check-out, it makes the bad things we are constantly bombarded with at least a bit more tolerable. As cliché as it may sound a little positivity goes a long way.

Walrus · Nov 1, 2022

I don’t really separate mental from physical illness as what is mental illness but the brain not firing correctly. Since it manifests in behavior rather than breaking you down physically (although that can happen) it’s probably more easy to stigmatize for many.
I got this little rental occupied by guys with traumatic brain injuries. In their cases they were literally fine one day and after a horrible car accident or a random robbery in which they were hit in the head they were never the same. I’m usually over there weekly repairing things of general upkeep and most of the guys the house have been there for a couple years so I’ve become friendly and talk with them. It’s almost like they acquired a mental illness in whatever brought about the TBI as they get depressed thinking about how things changed for them if they are at the level that they can recall pre TBI life.

Then how many of us will get Alzheimer’s if we live long enough? Is it one in six? Might be 1 in 5 if you include the various dementias. How many people on here have a family member fading away with that.

I used to attend spiritual retreats. It was like a Catholic get together for a few days at a monastery in the middle of nowhere. I arrived early one time and a retreat for paraplegics was just ending. I walked up to the entrance where they had congregated to get into transportation. They said “here come the TAB’s”. I asked what they were saying and they stated, “we call you temporarily able bodied as like you most of us here were one time walking through doorways not sitting in wheelchairs.”

I don’t like to see anyone struggle, everyone is fighting something. Everyone is fighting a battle we know nothing about.

If we just help each other out when possible, a kind word here or there, we are all heading the same place, I’m kinda curious if someone is keeping score and why people are afflicted with these sufferings through no fault of their own. Perhaps we will get the answers someday, not too soon if possible. It’ll be a real bummer if the lights just go out at the end but I guess at that point it won’t matter.

Concretepuppy · Nov 2, 2022

janice&fred
While no one can argue about how you feel...you genuinely feel this way, you might consider expanding your world to include more people. People care. You're painting people in general with a very negative brush. Seems you might have not met enough genuine good ones yet but they're there. Plenty of them. No need to look very hard. For example, start with first responders to emergencies...car accidents, etc.

Thanks for your reply, i used to be a people person, and look forward to going to social events of any kind, meeting people from all areas of life, and treat them without prejudice or favour but in the belief that everybody’s story is unique like a palm print, when i was in Iraq i was the one who brought presents back off leave for the local helpers and fixers we had, i went for lunch with the Afghans at Lash and Kandahar while my colleagues scoffed at the food poisoning i'd be having the next day, Sa'adi, a guy with us in Al Zubayr was such a good mate i almost cried when i left, he hugged me like i've never been hugged before or since (without a trace of bowling from the pavilion) but it just feels that once you've seen behind the wizard's curtain, you can't un-see it, i used to have a hunch about what was behind it, but took no notice, pushed it aside and convinced myself it was for the cynical, and i was never going to fall for it, and now i feel foolish for ignoring what was behind it for so long, i don't wish it on anyone, so the longer you (not you personally but folk generally ) can pretend there is no curtain or what is behind it is true and wonderous, the better, if i could go back to being a fool again i would, but i don't even remember a point when it changed, or waking up and feeling different, i just know if i'm honest, that people, humans, are the worst species to have ever lived on this planet, and we're becoming more adept at looking after ourselves while pretending to care for each other, because we've realised that if others see how caring we are it stands us in good stead and makes looking after ourselves easier, especially if we can advertise our care-giving for others to see, then they become recruits by witnessing it as well as the primary recipient, the existence of true altruism is still a hotly debated topic in psychology, no surprise
a psychopath will generally receive less sympathy from others for their disorder than a person with autism, even though both have brains that are not functioning correctly

janice&fred · Nov 2, 2022

C Concretepuppy
no surprise
a psychopath will generally receive less sympathy from others for their disorder than a person with autism, even though both have brains that are not functioning correctly

Again, you seem to be painting all people with the same brush. For instance, there's a huge difference between a high functioning pathological liar vs a non-verbal autistic individual. Of course one might expect to be more sympathetic towards the autistic person. Doesn't mean there's thinly veiled contempt toward the other.

Concretepuppy · Nov 2, 2022

janice&fred
Again, you seem to be painting all people with the same brush. For instance, there's a huge difference between a high functioning pathological liar vs a non-verbal autistic individual. Of course one might expect to be more sympathetic towards the autistic person. Doesn't mean there's thinly veiled contempt toward the other.

thanks, yes you're right, i do need to address some stuff

X350 XJR · Nov 2, 2022

C Concretepuppy
thanks, yes you're right, i do need to address some stuff

There's no shame in being fυcked up in our heads, recognizing that perhaps we are is the first step towards healing. Good luck on your journey.

Walrus · Nov 2, 2022

I was at a few trainings where the potential ineffectiveness of antidepressants has been brought up. One MD went into current studies going on that indicate depression being linked to the “gut”. I just follow these things as I have a family member that has treatment resistant bipolar and for a job I have. My family member did seem to get some relief from a ketamine trial and I helped her sign up for a study being done with the active ingredient of “magic mushrooms” my understanding is it’s microdosing over a period of time. The ketamine started as an IV drip but is now administered via a nasal spray.

The FDA is also now funding studies on psyclosibine (excuse the spelling to lazy to look it up but the active “ingredient” in magic mushrooms” for smoking cessation and weight problems. We are probably a way off from them being prescribed but ketamine clinics are operating, insurance won’t cover it as it’s off label but if it helps her depression it’s worth it.

There are a few publicly traded companies that specifically are working on hallucinogenics for various mental illness I got mindmed I think it’s called at around .50 as I think it may be viable in the future. Don’t take my advice or change meds or anything just posting it as I’m dealing with it often.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325767

Concretepuppy · Nov 3, 2022

X350 XJR
There's no shame in being fυcked up in our heads, recognizing that perhaps we are is the first step towards healing. Good luck on your journey.

Thanks, i don't really feel any shame or embarrassment about it, because i'm not responsible for the way it's turned out, i'm just a spectator in the crowd who is trying to find the exit, i bumped into a colleague at work and as a throw-away greeting asked how he was, his answer summed it up " i'm alright, it's everyone else"
There is something wrong with the current society, with it's superficial, fake way of going about it's business, people are hailed as heroes for doing what people 70 years ago would have done before breakfast,
the word hero (and legend) has become a very misused word,
someone posts a picture of their stomach online and is called courageous,
the imagined guilt over the planet apparently dying while we all want boiling water on tap in our kitchens,
throwing open our doors to refugees from war zones (as long as they look like us and don't disrupt our perfect world too much, and we can tell everyone how virtuous we are for doing it, which by the way didn't work out well, a lot were asked to leave after a very short time)
convincing each other how lovely the honey tastes and sharing or harbouring their own stocks of it, (honey is a metaphor obviously), i'm not eating the honey because i think it's dog sh*t, i don't want any of the honey pushed on me or offered, and i'll continue to refuse to eat it as long as i have the right to do so, if i become an outcast because i refuse to eat it then fine, the world can enjoy eating the sh*t and tell each other how "awesome" or "amazing" (more misused words that have lost their true meaning) it is, and they are, all day long, i don't have a problem with it; but my choice to not take part in the eating/consuming of it is becoming a problem, as far as i can tell, it's becoming more and more difficult to abstain from eating it, and that's just not cricket
maybe that's a bit too abstract, it's like Catch 22 but in real life

janice&fred · Nov 3, 2022

C Concretepuppy
i don't have a problem with it;

Well we know that's not true. I suggest you spend less time online subjecting yourself to endless virtue-signaling fluff, as for instance on facebook, and see in real life that not everyone is full of shit. Heck I've met people working the checkout counters in grocery stores that were genuinely interested in how my day is going. They're not that hard to find 👍

Concretepuppy · Nov 3, 2022

janice&fred
Well we know that's not true. I suggest you spend less time online subjecting yourself to endless virtue-signaling fluff, as for instance on facebook, and see in real life that not everyone is full of shit. Heck I've met people working the checkout counters in grocery stores that were genuinely interested in how my day is going. They're not that hard to find 👍

thanks, i do rant somewhat and sorry for that, the thing i meant i had no problem with was not wanting to be part of what is supposed to be innovative and life-improving, eg. phones; the tech is there to make the reception and transmission better and more consistent, but all we are given is more storage and better cameras in each new model, and apparently how out of this world it is for us, never mind i take things one day at a time but thanks for your reply,
i don’t take part in any social media like facebook- surprise surprise

Concretepuppy · Nov 17, 2022

Rest my case

akshayluc420 · Dec 15, 2022

Walrus
My family member did seem to get some relief from a ketamine trial and I helped her sign up for a study being done with the active ingredient of “magic mushrooms” my understanding is it’s microdosing over a period of time. The ketamine started as an IV drip but is now administered via a nasal spray.

I'm visiting this thread after seeing Norm come back; it's interesting that you posted this as I didn't know if I should share my experiences in public given the legality and social acceptance of these two (ketamine, psylocibin).

Back in India, I was administered IV ketamine after bilateral ECT started wrecking havoc on memory and recall. They were similar in that it afforded me a break and 'reset' from my spiralling thoughts. Working in Dubai and Singapore, I didn't have any of this but India was always a short, inexpensive flight away. Intranasal administration was legalised here in 2020 IIRC but good luck getting a prescription (in my case)!

Been in Canada 4.5 years now and finding an available family doctor/GP here is a nightmare. When I moved cities as I lost my job in '19 when COVID and my family doc in Toronto decided to bolt from Canada and so have been without anyone to prescribe ever since (he would make a prescription for a 30mg of mirtazapine whilst my dose was lower so I had to cut it up myself). I've had to do a couple of nights waiting at hospitals here waiting for weekly prescriptions, always met with a fuss.

Which brings me to my new favourite fungi; whilst illegal here, they can be found in nature and if you know where to look....woops tor! It's been reported to be very effective, but some work is required. From what I hear, you have to get the start slow, and prepare to be in the right mental space before taking them. I understand there are some cheeky ways to get it now such as drinks, edibles etc...

(For me) Friends, company and support are all well and fine, but it always comes back. Talk therapy, Group, ABT, CBT, Lucid dreaming, journaling, meds, meditation yada yada done everything available to me. Sometimes you gotta force your mind to shut the f*ck up. Sometimes you have to take matters into your own hands, you must take care of yourself, no one else will. Yes it's temporary, but atleast it's a modicum of control.

JwRosenthal · Dec 15, 2022

akshayluc420
I'm visiting this thread after seeing Norm come back; it's interesting that you posted this as I didn't know if I should share my experiences in public given the legality and social acceptance of these two (ketamine, psylocibin).

Back in India, I was administered IV ketamine after bilateral ECT started wrecking havoc on memory and recall. They were similar in that it afforded me a break and 'reset' from my spiralling thoughts. Working in Dubai and Singapore, I didn't have any of this but India was always a short, inexpensive flight away. Intranasal administration was legalised here in 2020 IIRC but good luck getting a prescription (in my case)!

Been in Canada 4.5 years now and finding an available family doctor/GP here is a nightmare. When I moved cities as I lost my job in '19 when COVID and my family doc in Toronto decided to bolt from Canada and so have been without anyone to prescribe ever since (he would make a prescription for a 30mg of mirtazapine whilst my dose was lower so I had to cut it up myself). I've had to do a couple of nights waiting at hospitals here waiting for weekly prescriptions, always met with a fuss.

Which brings me to my new favourite fungi; whilst illegal here, they can be found in nature and if you know where to look....woops tor! It's been reported to be very effective, but some work is required. From what I hear, you have to get the start slow, and prepare to be in the right mental space before taking them. I understand there are some cheeky ways to get it now such as drinks, edibles etc...

(For me) Friends, company and support are all well and fine, but it always comes back. Talk therapy, Group, ABT, CBT, Lucid dreaming, journaling, meds, meditation yada yada done everything available to me. Sometimes you gotta force your mind to shut the f*ck up. Sometimes you have to take matters into your own hands, you must take care of yourself, no one else will. Yes it's temporary, but atleast it's a modicum of control.

Most people who don’t or have never suffered from debilitating physical or psychological pain don’t understand that you just want to feel “normal” and will do almost anything to make that happen.

Plus the stigmas attached to certain medications/naturals can be traumatizing as well. I used to feel like a criminal/junkie when I was filling some of the controlled scripts I was taking.

I was recently prescribed a treatment that my insurance doesn’t cover (of course) even with a goodRX discount code was $200/mo out of pocket and we are still playing with dosage so could go double that. I said to my wife when I first filled it “this isn’t sustainable- it’s so damn expensive”, but after being on it for 3 weeks, sold- I will work it into my budget and just buy one less cheap watch a month.

Walrus · Dec 15, 2022

akshayluc420
I'm visiting this thread after seeing Norm come back; it's interesting that you posted this as I didn't know if I should share my experiences in public given the legality and social acceptance of these two (ketamine, psylocibin).

Back in India, I was administered IV ketamine after bilateral ECT started wrecking havoc on memory and recall. They were similar in that it afforded me a break and 'reset' from my spiralling thoughts. Working in Dubai and Singapore, I didn't have any of this but India was always a short, inexpensive flight away. Intranasal administration was legalised here in 2020 IIRC but good luck getting a prescription (in my case)!

Been in Canada 4.5 years now and finding an available family doctor/GP here is a nightmare. When I moved cities as I lost my job in '19 when COVID and my family doc in Toronto decided to bolt from Canada and so have been without anyone to prescribe ever since (he would make a prescription for a 30mg of mirtazapine whilst my dose was lower so I had to cut it up myself). I've had to do a couple of nights waiting at hospitals here waiting for weekly prescriptions, always met with a fuss.

Which brings me to my new favourite fungi; whilst illegal here, they can be found in nature and if you know where to look....woops tor! It's been reported to be very effective, but some work is required. From what I hear, you have to get the start slow, and prepare to be in the right mental space before taking them. I understand there are some cheeky ways to get it now such as drinks, edibles etc...

(For me) Friends, company and support are all well and fine, but it always comes back. Talk therapy, Group, ABT, CBT, Lucid dreaming, journaling, meds, meditation yada yada done everything available to me. Sometimes you gotta force your mind to shut the f*ck up. Sometimes you have to take matters into your own hands, you must take care of yourself, no one else will. Yes it's temporary, but atleast it's a modicum of control.

It’s odd ketamine is still used “off label” unless that changed in the past year but if you showed up at Yale hospital with suicidality it was the first drug administered. As you mentioned it is often used in conjunction with ECT and there are clinics that administer it “off label” for pain and depression. The psyclosobin is experimental at this point but data gathered show it to be more effective than SSRI of course those stats are coming from the companies making the drug so I’m not sure if the FDA etc is in on the studies. For my family member I had to sign off a veritable book to get her treatment. I’ve been looking at a few options as I lost two humans and two cats this year I was close to. (Not comparing humans and cats of course) it’s a cumulative effect I guess. I’m also watching a family member die very slowly and my usual tactic of working 80 hrs a week is not helping and I can’t seem to get myself back to baseline. My buddies sister is a nurse at a ketamine clinic so the thought is crossing my mind I just try to stick to Motrin and “safer” drugs but this has been dragging me down for a while. My wife and I are big on natural stuff but much of it isn’t strong enough to pass the blood brain barrier.

I did talk to one doctor and he thinks it could be related to me having Covid 4x (one pre vax) and he has seen cases drag out 4-6 months and longer I had my last Covid bout around a month ago he also nicely told me I was an idiot for working so much (he was wearing a fifty fathoms I couldn’t help but notice as to me those are beautiful watches.)

Vercingetorix · Dec 15, 2022

Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study
https://www.science.org/content/article/gut-microbe-linked-depression-large-health-study

akshayluc420 · Dec 15, 2022

Vercingetorix
Gut microbe linked to depression in large health study
https://www.science.org/content/article/gut-microbe-linked-depression-large-health-study

In late 2019 I switched to a paleo-keto diet and have dropped about 20kgs (44lbs), and it's stayed off. I used the 'new diet' as an opportunity to very un-scientifically 'correct' what I thought would be a mucked up gut biome after subsisting on junk food whilst being an Uber & Skip delivery driver after I lost my job. I had noticed that milk and milk products weren't kind to my tummy after I left graduated from Uni and went back to the UK. I simply thought I was just used to India dairy.

Whilst I was aware of the link between depression and gut biome, the genetics to allow for the lactose digesting bacteria angle is new to me. I'm basically Indian (areligious), dairy is life! I use ghee to fry my eggs, in my coffee, baked/burned brioche for my french-canadian ex, buttermilk to marinade, and cheese on EVERYTHING. Food brings me comfort and the fact that I had to cut most of that stuff out (well, the soft cheeses, milk etc) was annoying.

But something clicked, males in both sides of my family have mental health issues leading to early onset Alzheimers/Lewy Body Dementia, and a few years ago most of us that displayed 'troubles' got ourselves tested to find any genetic markers. Thankfully in my generation, just 1 cousin and I have those markers. My cousin, his father, a maternal uncle, and I are the ONLY ones to have issues with dairy post adolescence, interesting that it's the same sub-set of folks that have depression. Exciting to say the least, I hope they do more research to confirm causation.

My cousin, and I aren't going to have kids (biological offspring), we won't now that we know what we can potentially pass on to very, very high degree of certainty. It's made finding a life partner difficult. But we certainly spoil our nieces and nephews with a tonne of ice-cream, ras malai, and mishti doi; food is love, and I'm glad I can bring them joy without giving them gas! 😜