Are the vintage watches for sale here trustworthy?

ngintime · Mar 10, 2021

I'm new here and was just wondering: is there any kind of monitoring of the sale listings on this forum?

For example, there's a listing (https://omegaforums.net/threads/ome...utomatic-c-1966-18k-yellow-gold-36-mm.109673/) claiming that a dial on a vintage Constellation is "(Original, never refinished)", when it seems implausible that it would have made it from 1966 all the way to 2021 looking like this:

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Is it possible that this dial is completely original? If not, why aren't the sale listings being policed/moderated? Why are sellers allowed to do this here with impunity and not held to an appropriately high standard?

These questions are of interest to me because I'm in the market for a vintage watch and a user, @SkunkPrince, encouraged me to consider purchasing from sellers over here instead of on ebay. But I'm not seeing how having to trawl through these sorts of listings is any better.

Tony C. · Mar 10, 2021

Implausible? If you're going to question a listing, and especially as a newcomer to the site, you'll have to do better than that in order to be taken seriously.

Did you not not notice the condition of the movement? Does it appear to be 60 years old?

I am not an expert on that model, and have no connection to the seller, but the dial appears correct to my eye, and consistent with the condition of other parts of the watch. In other words, if that's a redial, I'd like to do business with the artist who produced it.

gbesq · Mar 10, 2021

SkunkPrince is giving you good advice. In order to post a for sale listing on the private watch sales forum, you have to be an OF member and have at least 200 prior posts in other OF forums. Many OF members peruse the sale listings frequently and sales posts that contain inaccurate information are called out quickly. Most OF members who sell on the private watch sales forum can also provide references. In my experience, the sellers on OF value their reputations and are honest and straightforward to deal with. If they’re not, they don’t last long on OF. While there are bargains to be had on eBay, you better know what you are doing because 90% of the vintage watches offered are overpriced, overpolished, redialed, franken, out and out frauds, or some combination thereof. You are much better off buying from a seller on OF, particularly one with a history and references.

Wlcutter · Mar 10, 2021

Welcome, tho this isn't the best first step to take.

This forum's extraordinarily supportive and self-regulating in the best ways. Listings are frequently commented on and, eventually, changed by the owner, if details are pointed out that they originally missed.

In the case of this watch (no connection to the seller at all), if your only issue is that it seems implausible that the dial looks this good after 55 years: you've got quite a bit of catching up to do (the watch looks entirely correct and fine to me). Several members here have collections with watches that look shockingly good; to presume you know better or more, simply because you find it implausible, is really not a good position to take as a novice. Best of luck.

MtV · Mar 10, 2021

Also, while it’s of course not the responsibility of the owners of OF to vet every listing, next to the 200-post barrier, there’s the feedback of the community. The ad you refer to is from the dealers section, for which this might not apply in the same way, but I like to believe that if there’s something wrong with a listing, this is usually pointed out, at least to the seller in a private message. You can see the amount of likes a listing has generated at the bottom of the post, which might also be a good indicator. And generally, regarding the condition of this exact Connie you refer to, you’ve read the above comments. Looking around here, you’ll find plenty of examples in spectacular condition - which sure is part of the magic of this place.

JwRosenthal · Mar 10, 2021

Most of the collectors here buy the best of the best- you will see examples here that will blow your mind- how on earth is that so well preserved. Collectors pay a premium for such examples, they are worth it.
As said above, the sales section here is very closely monitored by all the members, not just the mod’s. Nothing gets through that’s not well described. If a watch has been “restored” or is a redial, it needs to be clearly stated in the listing- if it’s not- there will be hell to pay.

Shabbaz · Mar 10, 2021

JwRosenthal
if it’s not- there will be hell to pay.

We have a rule that such people are banished to Siberia to never be seen again.

JwRosenthal · Mar 10, 2021

Shabbaz
We have a rule that such people are banished to Siberia to never been seen again.

Or Chrono24

ngintime · Mar 10, 2021

JwRosenthal
As said above, the sales section here is very closely monitored by all the members, not just the mod’s. Nothing gets through that’s not well described. If a watch has been “restored” or is a redial, it needs to be clearly stated in the listing- if it’s not- there will be hell to pay.

Is there an art to distinguishing between restorations and untouched originals? I'm certainly new to this, but it feels like Occam's Razor for the original listing is that an expert refinisher stepped in at some point along the way vs it made it 57 years looking brand new (I'm not even sure how that could be achieved unless it was sitting in a humidity-controlled vault for most of that time?).

ahsposo · Mar 10, 2021

Is there an art?

Yeah, it's called study.

ngintime · Mar 10, 2021

Okay, clearly I'm misphrasing this.

Is it possible that someone could have refinished that dial to that high a degree of quality? It seems like the community here either thinks that's impossible or is giving the seller the benefit of the doubt, and I can't tell which it is.

Shabbaz · Mar 10, 2021

N ngintime
Okay, clearly I'm misphrasing this.

Is it possible that someone could have refinished that dial to that high a degree of quality? It seems like the community here either thinks that's impossible or is giving the seller the benefit of the doubt, and I can't tell which it is.

In 99% of the cases a redial is spotted by collectors. It has to do with looking at thousends of watches for many years. You dont look only at the dial but also if the dial is consistent with the rest of the watch. As a newcomer it's not possible to see or to know. This takes experience. There are however some rare occasions where even experienced collectors dont spot a redial. But it's rare.

watchyouwant · Mar 10, 2021

N ngintime
I'm new here and was just wondering: is there any kind of monitoring of the sale listings on this forum?

For example, there's a listing (https://omegaforums.net/threads/ome...utomatic-c-1966-18k-yellow-gold-36-mm.109673/) claiming that a dial on a vintage Constellation is "(Original, never refinished)", when it seems implausible that it would have made it from 1966 all the way to 2021 looking like this:

Is it possible that this dial is completely original? If not, why aren't the sale listings being policed/moderated? Why are sellers allowed to do this here with impunity and not held to an appropriately high standard?

These questions are of interest to me because I'm in the market for a vintage watch and a user, @SkunkPrince, encouraged me to consider purchasing from sellers over here instead of on ebay. But I'm not seeing how having to trawl through these sorts of listings is any better.

You are right . Stick with chrono24 and eBay. Learn the hard way and once you have handled a few purchases with your own money and are not sure anymore, do your own research and if you are lucky, somebody here might guide you. Or not. This is not a free valuation service. You ask; we might answer. Or not. Up to you. Your money. Your decision. You trawl . Or not. Your own journey starts now.

ngintime · Mar 10, 2021

Shabbaz
In 99% of the cases a redial is spotted by collectors. It has to do with looking at thousends of watches for many years. You dont look only at the dial but also if the dial is consistent with the rest of the watch. As a newcomer it's not possible to see or to know. This takes experience. There are however some rare occasions where even experienced collectors dont spot a redial. But it's rare.

This was a useful reply. Thank you. I think the flaw in my reasoning is as follows: to me it seems relatively easy to polish/replate the case, replace the crystal, and even keep the movement looking immaculate. I've seen numerous excellent examples of all of those after going through several hundred vintage Omega listings, so it doesn't seem especially impressive. But I have very rarely observed a pristine dial - usually the lettering is either faded or looks as if it's been refinished or there are some noticeable marks or debris.

I'll continue to try and get better at assessing. My apologies for brewing consternation over the issue. I regret that some of what I wrote sounded antagonistic. I've been really frustrated with the process of acquiring vintage pieces and am certainly jaded.

Dan S · Mar 10, 2021

Something tells me that the OP is having a bit of fun with us by stirring the pot. Perhaps an established (or banned) member that created a second account.

Don't feed the troll.

Shabbaz · Mar 10, 2021

N ngintime
But I have very rarely observed a pristine dial - usually the lettering is either faded or looks as if it's been refinished or there are some noticeable marks or debris.

If you stick around you will see hundreds of pristine dials in one month that are 50, 60 or 70 years old. I think you dont have a lot of experience yet.

Shabbaz · Mar 10, 2021

Dan S
Something tells me that the OP is having a bit of fun with us by stirring the pot. Perhaps an established (or banned) member that created a second account.

Don't feed the troll.

Some people call me naive. I always try to see the best in people. 😁

Dan S · Mar 10, 2021

Shabbaz
Some people call me naive. I always try to see the best in people. 😁

You would get along with my wife. She often scolds me for being so cynical.

Redwes25 · Mar 10, 2021

I agree with what everyone has said but would add that the dealer section of the sales listing is a bit less monitored by members then the private sales section. Also, I am by no means an expert on that model (or really Omega's huge library of vintage dress watches) but seems fine to me but everyone should do their own due diligence on a watch even a listing on Omega forums but the waters are much safer then out on the bay or Chrono24.

Dan S · Mar 10, 2021

Redwes25
but seems fine to me but everyone should do their own due diligence on a watch even a listing on Omega forums

Sure, but any idiot should know that starting a provocative thread to make totally naive and unjustified claims about a member's listing is not the right way to go about it. That's why I simply can't believe the OP is sincere.

Are the vintage watches for sale here trustworthy?

ngintime

Tony C.

gbesq

Wlcutter

MtV

JwRosenthal

Shabbaz

JwRosenthal

ngintime

ahsposo

ngintime

Shabbaz

watchyouwant

ngintime

Dan S

Shabbaz

Shabbaz

Dan S

Redwes25

Dan S

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