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Are Omega's Dive watches water resistant when the crown is opened?

Tekashi_145.022
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Archer Archer
Here I've demonstrated that the crown will still seal even if it's unscrewed:

Seamaster exposed to water with unscrewed crown | Page 3 | Omega Forums

No one is recommending you leave it unscrewed of course, but going outside with it unscrewed for 2 minutes not in the rain or humidity, and being concerned that you have somehow let a damaging amount of humidity in the watch is a bit over the top...

Hey Archer, I imagine you don’t test this often, but any idea how many screw down crowns actually provide water resistance?

A watchmaker I knew told me screw down crowns don’t always create a watertight seal, but I never thought to ask him how often that was the case.

Pretty much any 16 oz soda or water bottle I’ve ever used with a “screw down” bottle cap is airtight, so I figure most watch cases are the same… but thought I’d ask.
 
Dan S
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Tekashi_145.022 Tekashi_145.022
Hey Archer, I imagine you don’t test this often, but any idea how many screw down crowns actually provide water resistance?

A watchmaker I knew told me screw down crowns don’t always create a watertight seal, but I never thought to ask him how often that was the case.

Pretty much any 16 oz soda or water bottle I’ve ever used with a “screw down” bottle cap is airtight, so I figure most watch cases are the same… but thought I’d ask.

I think that pretty much any watch with a screw-down crown was originally meant to be water resistant, but the water resistance will degrade over time as the seals themselves degrade.

@Archer was making a different point, which is that a screw-down crown still provides a level of water resistance even when not screwed down, because of the gasket design. One advantage of screwing down the crown is that it cannot be accidentally rotated under water, which could compromise water resistance.
 
D
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Dan S Dan S
I think that pretty much any watch with a screw-down crown was originally meant to be water resistant, but the water resistance will degrade over time as the seals themselves degrade.

@Archer was making a different point, which is that a screw-down crown still provides a level of water resistance even when not screwed down, because of the gasket design. One advantage of screwing down the crown is that it cannot be accidentally rotated under water, which could compromise water resistance.

Let us keep in mind that the screw down component of the Crown, does not in of itself provide water resistance.
Water can wind it's way up a thread very easily unless it's sealed with a sealing compound.
Even a tapered pipe thread will require a sealing compound to prevent a leak.

It's the sound mechanical seals and gaskets that provide water resistance in a wrist watch👍
 
Dan S
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D Duckie
Let us keep in mind that the screw down component of the Crown, does not in of itself provide water resistance.
Water can wind it's way up a thread very easily unless it's sealed with a sealing compound.
Even a tapered pipe thread will require a sealing compound to prevent a leak.

It's the sound mechanical seals and gaskets that provide water resistance in a wrist watch👍

Well, yes and no. I agree that the threads themselves are not sealing the crown, it's not like a tapered pipe thread with pipe dope. However, some crowns (e.g. Rolex twin-lock and trip-lock) have multiple O-rings, some of which provide water-resistance around and/or inside the tube even when the crown is unscrewed, and others that provide an additional seal between the crown and tube when the crown is screwed down. If you google, you can find some very clear diagrams of these crown/tube systems.

Sorry to use Rolex as an example, it's just something I'm familiar with. I'm not sure exactly how the Omega screw-down crowns seal.
 
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Dan S Dan S
Well, yes and no. I agree that the threads themselves are not sealing the crown, it's not like a tapered pipe thread with pipe dope. However, some crowns (e.g. Rolex twin-lock and trip-lock) have multiple O-rings, some of which provide water-resistance around and/or inside the tube even when the crown is unscrewed, and others that provide an additional seal between the crown and tube when the crown is screwed down. If you google, you can find some very clear diagrams of these crown/tube systems.

Sorry to use Rolex as an example, it's just something I'm familiar with. I'm not sure exactly how the Omega screw-down crowns seal.

It's fairly natural to use Rolex designs as a reference point.
I'm quite familiar with them as well as I imagine a good number of other members here are👍

I've seen just about all the diagrams, mock-ups and models of both the Twinlock and Triplock.
Sometimes I scratch my head as to to roll of the various "O" rings.
The one on the outside of the thread of the Triplock mystifies me and until I see a detailed image of the inside of the Screw down crown where it marries up with that external o-ring, i will refrain from commenting on it's roll except to say that it seems to me to be there to keep contaminates out of the critical seal zone👎
The o-rings on the inside of the Crown tube are self explanatory, just as the ones inside the Twinlock.
The seal on the inside of the Twinlock which crushes up against the end of the Crown tube when the crown is screwed down properly appears to be the key component. Yet others seemingly more knowledgeable don't seem to acknowledge it's significance. Nor can they seem to be able to explain it's purpose, but Rolex has it there for a reason👎
Just like the o-rings inside the Triplock, people seem to think the o-rings inside the Twinlock are the be all and end all of water resistance😉

If someone has detailed knowledge around the technology used on both the Rolex designs and could put forward plausible explanations as to the rolls of the various o-rings and how they function, I would be all ears😀
 
dpwaber
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Dan S Dan S
... and hand alignment ...

Water in a watch is very much a brown trouser moment, hand alignment not so much. If you can whip the back off in 5 seconds it is not a problem, and a regular wash is probably beneficial. If you think rice will save the watch, once water gets in, you need to think again.
 
Archer
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Tekashi_145.022 Tekashi_145.022
A watchmaker I knew told me screw down crowns don’t always create a watertight seal, but I never thought to ask him how often that was the case.

Unless the seals are bad or the design is very poor, a screw down crown should be water resistant.
 
D
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dpwaber dpwaber
Water in a watch is very much a brown trouser moment, hand alignment not so much. If you can whip the back off in 5 seconds it is not a problem, and a regular wash is probably beneficial. If you think rice will save the watch, once water gets in, you need to think again.

Agreed👍
 
M
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D Duckie
Let us keep in mind that the screw down component of the Crown, does not in of itself provide water resistance.
Water can wind it's way up a thread very easily unless it's sealed with a sealing compound.
Even a tapered pipe thread will require a sealing compound to prevent a leak.

It's the sound mechanical seals and gaskets that provide water resistance in a wrist watch👍
I’ve seen countless tapered and flared threaded fittings that prevent leaks under high pressure without any kind of tape or sealant. Your car has many of these. If a manufacturer wanted to, they could very easily create a threaded system that offers/adds to water resistance with threads alone. There would still have to be a mechanism to keep residual out when it’s unscrewed though
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Archer
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M matlt
I’ve seen countless tapered and flared threaded fittings that prevent leaks under high pressure without any kind of tape or sealant. Your case has many of these. If a manufacturer wanted to, they could very easily create a threaded system that offers/adds to water resistance with threads alone. There would still have to be a mechanism to keep residual out when it’s unscrewed though

What threads do you believe there are on the case that don’t use any kind of seal, and are water tight?

The case back uses an O-ring.

The case tube uses a washer and thread locker.

The HEV tube uses a washer and thread locker.

The crown uses an O-ring.

That’s all of them...
 
M
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Archer Archer
What threads do you believe there are on the case that don’t use any kind of seal, and are water tight?

The case back uses an O-ring.

The case tube uses a washer and thread locker.

The HEV tube uses a washer and thread locker.

The crown uses an O-ring.

That’s all of them...

I meant in applications outside of the watch industry. Just pointing out that a threaded connection alone can be water tight. When it comes to watches, it isn’t necessary as obviously the o-rings are sufficient.

just realized my typo. I meant car, not case
Edited:
 
STANDY
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DoctorEvil DoctorEvil
I wonder if it's because Rolex and Omega are now considered "luxury" watches whilst the Seiko is still regarded as a "tool watch". Given the much lower cost of a Seiko, I wouldn't be surprised. You'd be a lot less heartbroken if you accidentally dented a Seiko at work compared to a Sub.

Nope…..it’s about what they can see on their wrists better.
FD96D822-9BE3-4239-A604-9627157653E7.jpeg CF46BF76-7E76-4A24-9FC4-6B7859B8AA3E.jpeg
 
PandaSPUR
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Lets just all remember that most of the stuff said here goes out the window if you dont maintain your watches.

I have a Breitling Colt that ended up with condensation inside after I washed my hands with the crown unscrewed. That thing was like 8 years old and never serviced though, so not surprising.
 
D
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M matlt
I meant in applications outside of the watch industry. Just pointing out that a threaded connection alone can be water tight.

I take on board what you have said above and was prepared to handle it by letting it go through to the keeper, but I am seriously struggling with this👎

I do threaded connections for a living and along with everybody else that I know and work with in the field are rather dismayed that you are seemingly running across threaded connections that don't require a sealing compound to stay leakproof.
In all fairness perhaps we are moved to operate in an overkill mode because we are leak proofing connections for fuels, oils, gas, and air with water being at the bottom of the priority list.
But even in a plumbing application with only head pressure to contend with from a water tank. Some form of rudimentary sealant(thread) tape is required on the threads of beautifully formed poly pipe fittings, even if it's just as a precaution because there are not necessarily any long term guarantees upon assembly.

Could you please give some examples of applications where there is no thread sealant required on threaded pipe connections of any kind?
Feel free to limit your examples to those which only involve water and are not intended to only be temporary👍
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D
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PandaSPUR PandaSPUR
Lets just all remember that most of the stuff said here goes out the window if you dont maintain your watches.

True enough👍
 
josiahg52
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I thought a screw-down crown primarily prevented the crown from being pulled to the time-setting position, stopping the watch. It also prevents the crown and stem from being pulled from the watch. Either would be bad news.

The screw-down helium valve disables the automatic relief valve by holding it shut regardless of internal case pressure. It's a positive assurance device.
 
D
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josiahg52 josiahg52
I thought a screw-down crown primarily prevented the crown from being pulled to the time-setting position, stopping the watch. It also prevents the crown and stem from being pulled from the watch. Either would be bad news.

The screw-down helium valve disables the automatic relief valve by holding it shut regardless of internal case pressure. It's a positive assurance device.

A screw down crown can't be jagged open accidentally. When accidentally jagged open it can simultaneously be pulled sideways causing it to be bent.
This can happen with threads of clothing being wrapped around it, or even towelling when simply drying hands or wiping up the dishes or loading and unloading a clothes washing machine or clothes dryer.
It can happen anytime one can imagine and without one being aware that it has happened.
If I recall correctly, the crown guard(asymetrical case) design of the Speedy as we know it, was a product of it's evolution to become a fully functional tool watch because of the space program. Somebody or a number of people probably had issue with it at some point thus triggering a re-think on Omega's part.

Looking at the Rolex Twinlock in isolation which we touched on earlier in the thread. It appears as though the screw down component of the design is crucial to the water resistance capability because of the gasket/seal that gets screwed down onto the very end of the Crown tube👎
Without that element of crush on the seal by screwing the Winding crown down onto it. It may not necessary be as effective at keeping the water out as one would imagine🙁
Noteably, the early Twinlocks on the legendary Submariners were routinely swapped at a Rolex service back in the day, for a Triplock as a standard upgrade after the Triplock was introduced.
This probably indicates that the Twinlock had design limitations which were insurmountable. They still rate it for 100 metres though👍
 
M
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D Duckie
I take on board what you have said above and was prepared to handle it by letting it go through to the keeper, but I am seriously struggling with this👎

I do threaded connections for a living and along with everybody else that I know and work with in the field are rather dismayed that you are seemingly running across threaded connections that don't require a sealing compound to stay leakproof.
In all fairness perhaps we are moved to operate in an overkill mode because we are leak proofing connections for fuels, oils, gas, and air with water being at the bottom of the priority list.
But even in a plumbing application with only head pressure to contend with from a water tank. Some form of rudimentary sealant(thread) tape is required on the threads of beautifully formed poly pipe fittings, even if it's just as a precaution because there are not necessarily any long term guarantees upon assembly.

Could you please give some examples of applications where there is no thread sealant required on threaded pipe connections of any kind?
Feel free to limit your examples to those which only involve water and are not intended to only be temporary👍
Here’s some basics. https://www.ralstoninst.com/news/story/high-pressure-connection-seals-explained
Most/all of my experience is with this type of application. Technically, the flare is what creates the seal, with the threads ensuring proper mating. But there’s no sealant or gasket of any kind.
Edited:
 
D
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M matlt
Here’s some basics. https://www.ralstoninst.com/news/story/high-pressure-connection-seals-explained
Most/all of my experience is with this type of application. Technically, the flare is what creates the seal, with the threads ensuring proper mating. But there’s no sealant or gasket of any kind.

Oh, so I see you are talking about compression fitting arrangements with tube nuts, olives and various applications of o-rings and a collection of other types of connections that incorporate variations of a tapered seat which forms the seal inside a threaded fitting. All of which i am quite familiar with and often found in hydraulic applications.

I was strictly referring to threaded connections that primarily rely upon the thread alone such as BSP and BSPT threads which are quite common. Your fitting examples may also have the same pipe threads which will always require a thread sealant.
Nothing that is particularly exotic👍
Essentially I fear we are actually talking about different things👎

As Al has shared with us.
He usually deals with assemblies that incorporate a gasket arrangement not too dissimilar to your examples of fittings, but he also uses a thread locking compound which I assume is there as a back up seal and primarily to lock and prevent the threaded tube assembly backing out accidentally.
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P
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Archer Archer
Yes, the crown is still water resistant when unscrewed, or when pulled out to the various setting positions.

@Archer

May be a silly question for my first post but if Omega screw down crowns are water resistant even when pulled out to the furthest positions, does this also mean it is humidity/moisture resistant? Obviously humidity is a form of water but not sure which is easier to get past the gaskets if the crown is popped out to the furthest position. Assume new seals, gaskets.
 
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