Are members invested in Bitcoin/crypto?

wrist time · May 17, 2022

Archer
As I said many here will disagree. I personally don't see the benefit of crypto currencies, and in my life it's not something I have ever had to deal with. In other words, no one has asked to pay me in crypto, and no one has asked me to pay them in crypto. At this point it isn't really a currency, but a highly speculative investment, that really isn't backed by any anything other than people's belief. I'm sure I'll hear that all currencies are the same, but I don't invest in all currencies either...to me a currency is a tool to facilitate business, not an investment.

Belief is a big factor. Crypto currencies need enough people to believe to be successful. All innovations do but so do pyramid schemes.

fibonacci · May 17, 2022

Archer
Well, like your reading of the article I linked to, I don't actually see much there. He says that it's not really good at being a currency in the traditional way, for buying and selling of everyday goods, which is what the article I posted said as well. He actually appears to be more pro blockchain, and not cryptocurrencies, which use blockchain. Whole different discussion...

I'm pretty sure Cowen is talking about cryptocurrencies in general and not blockchain specifically. He does feel that most of the "cryptoassets" that exist today will likely fail, but the space in general will stick around serving some useful purpose even if it's not clear what it is right now. This is not inconsistent with a view that bitcoin is overvalued or even that it will be one of the cryptoassets that disappears.

bmpennington · May 17, 2022

321Only
Out of curiosity, what is the forums view on BTC?

I invest in a few coins but don’t trade them.

Archer · May 17, 2022

fibonacci
I'm pretty sure Cowen is talking about cryptocurrencies in general and not blockchain specifically. He does feel that most of the "cryptoassets" that exist today will likely fail, but the space in general will stick around serving some useful purpose even if it's not clear what it is right now. This is not inconsistent with a view that bitcoin is overvalued or even that it will be one of the cryptoassets that disappears.

Well, you even quoted the passage in question...

"I think of them as new kinds of computers, new kinds of legal systems, and new ways of achieving reliable decentralized consensus."

None of these things he cites are specific to currencies...

Alpha · May 17, 2022

Probably my age but I have absolutely no interest in Bitcoin, I much prefer regular meetings with my pensions advisor who is a great guy b.t.w.
and we can discus risk etc. etc. or new opportunities.

Toishome · May 17, 2022

I thought I would lighten the mood here a bit 😀

Walrus · May 17, 2022

Toishome
I thought I would lighten the mood here a bit 😀

Did you watch any of the congressional hearing on UFO’s? Some of it was pretty interesting but I only listened to parts and then saw the highlights after work. There are those that believe Satoshi Nakamoto was an alien bringing us the advanced tech of Bitcoin. That sounds dumb to me he was probably a lizard person.

Walrus · May 17, 2022

Alpha
Probably my age but I have absolutely no interest in Bitcoin, I much prefer regular meetings with my pensions advisor who is a great guy b.t.w.
and we can discus risk etc. etc. or new opportunities.

I asked my investment guy if I should go “all in on Bitcoin and meme stonks” about a year ago. I was just trying to get a rise out of him. He simply said “absolutely not” and carried on like I never said anything. I was hoping for at least raised eyebrows.

Toishome · May 17, 2022

Walrus
Did you watch any of the congressional hearing on UFO’s? Some of it was pretty interesting but I only listened to parts and then saw the highlights after work. There are those that believe Satoshi Nakamoto was an alien bringing us the advanced tech of Bitcoin. That sounds dumb to me he was probably a lizard person.

Yeah, I did watch a little. Mulder knew all along 😁
Crypto is the equivalent of an Abacus to our green friends.

fibonacci · May 18, 2022

Archer
Well, you even quoted the passage in question...

"I think of them as new kinds of computers, new kinds of legal systems, and new ways of achieving reliable decentralized consensus."

None of these things he cites are specific to currencies...

They are specific to cryptocurrencies, at least according to proponents. As I understand it, the "currency" in the name doesn't really mean money that you would use to pay for goods and services in the real world. I think it's better described as a new form of token that is exchangeable algorithmically by computers and can have value in some computing context. It's what is supposed to provide decentralized systems with a built-in means to incentivize their success and adoption. That's why it's not just about blockchains alone. A blockchain without this incentivization is just an immutable distributed database, and we've had distributed databases for a while now.

A decentralized real-world payment method is an example of one system that might be built with that technology, but as everyone has noted it hasn't happened and might never. Bitcoin is now thought to be a system for storing value, and of course we can debate how good it is at that. Decentralized finance (DeFi) has arguably been a successful system so far. People are trying to come up with lots of other systems, most or all of which will probably fail, and most of the ones that exist today are probably quite overvalued. But there is still some interesting innovation at the core.

If you're interested in another take from the technology perspective, this is good. Note the line: "cryptocurrencies and blockchains are inseparable".

Twocats · May 18, 2022

I am waiting for XRP to hand the SEC its ass on a plate and hopefully kickstart the bull run again.

Omegafanman · May 18, 2022

Dan S
Interesting that this thread is coming around to the topic of a loose monetary supply creating a bubble. There used to be a whole thread on that topic that went on for years, but it became very adversarial and was closed IIRC.

;0)

Archer · May 18, 2022

fibonacci
Note the line: "cryptocurrencies and blockchains are inseparable".

Yes, of course. Cryptocurrencies rely on blockchain, but the reverse is not true. NFT's are a primary example - they are not cryptocurrencies, but rely on blockchain. None of the things in that quote from your first link are specific to cryptocurrencies (if the author meant it that way or not). Seeing it as only related to cryptocurrencies is looking at a fraction of what the technology can do. Of course if you are going to change the definition to make "cryptocurrencies" mean something other than currency, then of course you can define your way out of any debate I suppose...

Toishome · May 18, 2022

Twocats
I am waiting for XRP to hand the SEC its ass on a plate and hopefully kickstart the bull run again.

It's coming soon. Hopefully by the end of this year.

fibonacci · May 18, 2022

Archer
Yes, of course. Cryptocurrencies rely on blockchain, but the reverse is not true. NFT's are a primary example - they are not cryptocurrencies, but rely on blockchain. None of the things in that quote from your first link are specific to cryptocurrencies (if the author meant it that way or not). Seeing it as only related to cryptocurrencies is looking at a fraction of what the technology can do. Of course if you are going to change the definition to make "cryptocurrencies" mean something other than currency, then of course you can define your way out of any debate I suppose...

No, NFTs rely on cryptocurrencies, not just blockchain. Most NFTs use the ERC-721 standard on the Ethereum blockchain, which means they depend on the cryptocurrency ETH. I'm not aware of any interesting uses of blockchains without an accompanying cryptocurrency, and that's kind of the point; the cryptocurrency provides the necessary incentive for the blockchain to be both decentralized and useful.

Archer · May 18, 2022

fibonacci
No, NFTs rely on cryptocurrencies, not just blockchain. Most NFTs use the ERC-721 standard on the Ethereum blockchain, which means they depend on the cryptocurrency ETH. I'm not aware of any interesting uses of blockchains without an accompanying cryptocurrency, and that's kind of the point; the cryptocurrency provides the necessary incentive for the blockchain to be both decentralized and useful.

I disagree, as blockchain has been suggested as something that can be used for many things not cryptocurrency related (as have NFT's) but I'm not going to argue it any longer as you are very convinced.

Cheers, Al

Walrus · May 18, 2022

Wow bottom really falling out of everything. Existence is interesting

pdxleaf · May 18, 2022

fibonacci
.. I'm not aware of any interesting uses of blockchains without an accompanying cryptocurrency..,

Blockchain has been considered useful for tracking other assets, such as luxury watches, with the goal ensuring authenticity

Walrus · May 18, 2022

pdxleaf
Blockchain has been considered useful for tracking other assets, such as luxury watches, with the goal ensuring authenticity

Also used in the US for record keeping and setting up the whole vaccine push. Many hospitals are finding it useful and secure for medical records. IBM has done some cool things with blockchain technology. It’s quite interesting. The tech behind Bitcoin may be more valuable than Bitcoin itself as companies are taking it next level.

jumpingsecond · May 18, 2022

I think Bitcoin, nfts, block chain tech the whole crypto-verse are all still in their infancy stage and their final functions in this world are still evolving. Its like mobile phones when they first came out you could call someone with your chunky black phone from a limo and that looked pretty cool but it was hard to imagine then all the other stuff that hadnt happened yet with cell phones- all you can do on them today. With crypto/ block chain - I doubt currency is its evolved use. It will transform to something most of us(or at least me )cant see yet.