Apollo-Soyuz 1976 (maybe) coming up for auction.

A couple of members drew my attention to this piece coming up for auction tomorrow. Thank you both.

https://www.osenat.com/en/lot/148153/25810289-omega-speedmaster-apollosoyuz

It is described as number 441, with serial number 35,580,643.

As has been discussed here many times, the first 400 of the Apollo-soyuz issue (000-399) were fairly analogous, produced in April and May 1976, based on a standard 145.022 with serial numbers in the range of 39,180,900 - 39,181,400 (at least those from my research of 50 or so examples).

The next batch of watches, stamped 400-499 have been recorded on many different serial numbers, in fact all that I know are earlier than the standard range. There are batches in the 31m, 32m & 35m. This one has a close relative in number 499 on serial 35,580,648. Most extracts for this batch of watches, that I have seen, don't mention them as Apollo-Soyuz, but I have seen one that has. There doesn't seem to be any difference physically with the first batch apart from the serials, however I've not seen any 400s with the 5.5m pushers, hence the cases and pushers may be standard 145.022s. This auction doesn't mention the pushers.

So this one could be a bona-fida 400s issue. However, the dial!!

The dial on this one looks very different from everything else I've seen. The A-S logo and, in fact, the printing in general looks rather think and heavy. The font on the OMEGA logo is different, without serifs, and a shorter proportion, and the numbers are also different, in particular the 3 on the chronograph hours subdial. Also, the T SWISS T font is smaller than standard, and is not found in that size on any moonwatch that I know. So the dial just looks wrong to me, perhaps re-painted or just not original, it's not clear.

The bezel is not original to a 1976 A-S; It is the later 145.022 version, used from 2004 onwards, with the dot under the 70, and between the 1 and 9 or 190 (thanks MWO). Whilst it may have been swapped on service, I haven't seen any Apollo-Soyuz examples with this later bezel, but of course, it's possible.

Hope this helps anyone looking at this. Shame I didn't see this coming up when I was in Paris last weekend, I would have liked to see it in person.

Thanks for this thread that adds to the collective knowledge.

There was another watch with this dial that people also considered incorrect/ fake:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/fake-omega-apollo-soyuz.127417/


The caseback has the faintest '441'. It's strange that the etching is worn off but the brushing looks fairly intact, although i can see wear on the '3' and edge.


The case itself looks correct, although the pushers look small to me.

At this point it doesn't matter if there really were A/S watches in the 400's or if this movement and case came originally from the Italian distributor. No dial, no deal.

I've read this dial described as a possible service dial. I think that is giving it the best scenario. Is there any evidence or belief that Omega actually did make service dials for these? It seems unlikely to me, although not impossible. It would need to be early to have a service dial with tritium. Given that there were supposedly more dials and cases produced than sold (hence the extra hundred), having additional service dials seems less likely.

A watch that was put together would look like this.

Edit: plus the length of the indices (index) is too short on this auction watch.

This thread will be very interesting to follow!
Everybody loves Speedys, and the Soyuz is one of the Grails!

Some more info from the curator:

Regarding Lot No. 134, the Omega Speedmaster "Apollo-Soyuz," the watch is in excellent condition.

The watch comes with all the parts replaced during services performed by Omega, as well as a beautiful original and period-correct "ghost" bezel. You will also find numerous official Omega documents proving the authenticity of the watch. Only the pushers are 5 mm instead of 5.5 mm.

Condition Report: • Case: Very slight signs of wear, good condition. • Bracelet: Very slight signs of wear, good condition, ref. 1162/1/172. • Movement: Not serviced, works. (without warranty) • Dial: Original, good condition. • Hands: Original, good condition. • Insert: Service, good condition. Original bezel included.



Have a lovely weekend OF!!

We should expect that the parts replaced would include the original dial and pusher caps, yes?

How do they explain that they are misding, (if they are missing)?

There are lots of parts in the "goody bag"?
But no dial.....
And I do think that this Soyuz has a lot of unanswered questions,
and that the auction house might not have all answers??

Yes, absolutely, the font is too small and just wrong...

The service dial is likely "ëxchange only" so the owner had to send it first to Omega before receiving a replacement dial.

I don't think this is a service dial TBH. As mentioned, there are no dials that I know of that use that number font or the TSWISST font. I would hazard a guess - and obviously it is a guess - that this went to Omega for servicing as a standard 145.022.

I'm not a watchmaker, but looking at that parts bag - thanks @hansaboy - there are not many parts they didn't change!! Perhaps the only thing left was the case and the bridge with the serial number on!

We'll probably never know the true story unless the current owner is a member here.

Just had a chance to look at this one - it looks like the same or identical dial.

well well well...

No bids??

I can`t say for sure either if it is a service dial, or worse...... but i think it is logical Omega did make service dials for the Soyuz like with any other model. But you are right to raise a lot of suspicion on this one 👍

If it is a fake they could have used a decal sticker from a model kit ?

This A/S was a slow seller. Supposedly, Omega had extra parts that they gave the distributor. This doesn't seem like a situation where Omega would make extra dials.

If you don't have anything to do - read this post/thread about the the Apollo-Soyuz!
https://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-apollo-soyuz-the-hidden-truths.67054/
Amazing stuff...and not to spoil anything,
but I have Italian relatives, and we all know how good and passionate they are when they discuss!
😁
Enjoy, and it will take some time to read!
Thanks @pdxleaf for this one!!

Edit..I am a Knuckle Head forgetting to post the link, adjusted now....My Bad...🤔

I love this thread - I bought my A-S back in 2012 and it taught me a lot!