Anyone have a historical watch?

Omegafanman · Mar 15, 2023

Seiji
Another tangent, but very interesting Spy story.

https://www.usni.org/magazines/nava...ecember/jump-starting-japanese-naval-aviation

And about Yamamoto and Pearl Harbour
https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2009/december/how-japanese-did-it

Fascinating stuff - some obvious questions answered which most of us never thought to ask before. Its very good to have a different perspective. A slight drift but the UK (Rolls Royce) sold Russia the jet engines/ technology which led to the very capable MIG 15 fighter. Before then it was was all based on captured and outdated German technology. Another point often buried in the mists of time :0)

Lépine · Mar 16, 2023

I don't think I ever covered my Longines Weems Sidereal Time Two Star watch.
I really don't know much about it. The design of the dial and the order number haven't been confirmed to match
the same batch as P.V.H. Weems so I had been holding off. But since there has been recent discussions about
an unusual "Solar" watch that we are only guessing who used them came up, I decided to link an interesting
film I used to reference details of the North Island Celestial Navigation Training activities prior to war with Japan.
The video is great to watch to see how the US Army Recruited new Airmen.

I was trying to get info through using the Naval Institute but really didn't get far.

Silver cased order 38330 the individual number is over 300+ which means it has to be a military/government sized order. I believe this is a later order for the US military.

Lépine · Mar 17, 2023

Interesting coincidences.

This pilot looks like my uncle and has the same last name, and uncle was very small like the person pictured.

Norio Azuma did volunteer to be a Tokko Tai (Special Attack Force Squadron, a.k.a. Kamikaze).
Weeks before completing his training, the war ended. He married my father's older sister and lived in New York.

There may have been more than one very small Japanese Navy pilots with the last name Azuma or Higashi that looked like my uncle 😀 I am probably going to have to delete this later on since this is a big stretch. The history of my uncle is correct according to the family. I have no pictures of him in a pilot suit so can never really tell what he looked like then.

Lépine · Mar 17, 2023

I think I have found an image of the Seikosha with the bubble sextant.

Omegafanman · Mar 18, 2023

Seiji
I don't think I ever covered my Longines Weems Sidereal Time Two Star watch.
I really don't know much about it. The design of the dial and the order number haven't been confirmed to match
the same batch as P.V.H. Weems so I had been holding off. But since there has been recent discussions about
an unusual "Solar" watch that we are only guessing who used them came up, I decided to link an interesting
film I used to reference details of the North Island Celestial Navigation Training activities prior to war with Japan.
The video is great to watch to see how the US Army Recruited new Airmen.

I was trying to get info through using the Naval Institute but really didn't get far.

Silver cased order 38330 the individual number is over 300+ which means it has to be a military/government sized order. I believe this is a later order for the US military.

That is a great video. I am working through it. Having everyone on a ferry flight wear a parachute is very unusual and does not show a high degree of confidence ( they are probably just transporting their personal chutes to the new base so may as well wear it) Student navigation training out over the pacific…. What can go wrong :0) On that basis having Seaplanes makes sense. The scene of them beaching the planes is amazing, the mechanics will be having kittens.
The first plane looks to be a Ford Tri-motor…. Which holds the record for the first cow ever milked in flight!
Also the first flight over the geographic South Pole which has a stronger navigation link :0)
.

Omegafanman · Mar 18, 2023

Seiji
I think I have found an image of the Seikosha with the bubble sextant.

View attachment 1574736

That is a great photo and he is obviously preparing for a mission or training needing detailed navigation. Not likely to be a single seat situation if using a Sextant? The parachute look a good design/ fits well. The myth is that a lot of pilots chose not to use them. Was that due to the design, culture and tradition, practical knowledge of their situation and likely outcomes? It’s another area not well explored it seems.
https://histclo.com/essay/war/ww2/air/naf/jap/jafpw-para.html
.

Lépine · Mar 18, 2023

Hello Alan, thanks for the comments! It's funny, I have not seen much evidence of parachutes myself.
I often wondered about the harness which looks like it detaches from the parachute. I'll have to read up on this.

Omegafanman · Mar 19, 2023

Still working through the video. A nice Weems at the 20 mark? Shame it does not get a mention.
The training aircraft looks to be a JRF Goose. Very sturdy and versatile aircraft.
.

Lépine · Mar 20, 2023

Training at the Yokaren Japanese Naval Aviation Academy.

Side note: I couldn't hear the audio clearly in the documentaries, but it sounded like 241,283 (two hundred forty thousand) aviation students graduated from the Yokaren by 1945.
18,612 died in battle almost all before age of 20.

Yokaren students also became suicide submarine submariners and master divers armed with suicide mines. I am also aware of the suicide boats they piloted.

Have no idea how many Yokaren students this is at one time in this photo, thousands.

Lépine · Mar 24, 2023

Something unexpected, an A6M used by the Japanese Medics or Red Cross?
"ORIGINAL photo of two Japanese Navy AF Mitsubishi A6M5 Zero fighters with surrender markings at Jacquinot Bay, New Britain, September 1945. A surrender flight of the last four Zeros at Rabaul flew into Jacquinot Bay on the 18th September 1945. This photo, taken near to that date, shows one Zero with cowl removed for maintenance. "

Omegafanman · Mar 25, 2023

Seiji
Something unexpected, an A6M used by the Japanese Medics or Red Cross?
"ORIGINAL photo of two Japanese Navy AF Mitsubishi A6M5 Zero fighters with surrender markings at Jacquinot Bay, New Britain, September 1945. A surrender flight of the last four Zeros at Rabaul flew into Jacquinot Bay on the 18th September 1945. This photo, taken near to that date, shows one Zero with cowl removed for maintenance. "

I did not know about the surrender markings, apparently a green cross. .

Lépine · Mar 25, 2023

Thank you for the correction! That is really interesting, something in the google translation didn't work right and of course I was not aware of these green cross markings.

Lépine · Mar 25, 2023

Finally I have proof this was a Imperial Japanese Navy Fighter Pilot watch. These black Type 93 Seikosha were written up by people guessing as recases fight clocks. This image shows there were worn from the neck like othere Seikosha chronograph pocket watches.

Omegafanman · Mar 25, 2023

Seiji
Finally I have proof this was a Imperial Japanese Navy Fighter Pilot watch. These black Type 93 Seikosha were written up by people guessing as recases fight clocks. This image shows there were worn from the neck like othere Seikosha chronograph pocket watches.

That is fascinating. Also a funtional solution for normal use but in a crash it could smash your face or slash your neck. Suprised they had it loose. Also for any negative G situation in aerobatics or a dog fight. Maybe they would tuck it in somewhere when flying.

watchyouwant · Mar 25, 2023

I lost 2 historical watches in the Court ordered divorce Auction sale. The Seikosha/Tensoku watch, for which I got a Seiko Museum confirmation.
The other one is the oversized RN issued Clearance Divers watch from the early 1940's. Each was Hand Made by an UK Silversmith and each part of that watch had the same number stamped in, because when serviced, it would not fit others due to being hand made....Silver, because Steel was for the War effort. That was the RN answer to the German and Italian divers use of issued Panerai's. Less than 50 actually issued pieces/ cases are known. Will post pictures as soon a find them in my pictures..... Achim

watchyouwant · Mar 25, 2023

Found them .... Longines Movement. Excerpt shows a military Longines early 1940`s Mil. watch.

Lépine · Mar 25, 2023

Omegafanman
That is fascinating. Also a funtional solution for normal use but in a crash it could smash your face or slash your neck. Suprised they had it loose. Also for any negative G situation in aerobatics or a dog fight. Maybe they would tuck it in somewhere when flying.

You are correct, they put it in their floatation vest. See update above.

Lépine · Mar 25, 2023

watchyouwant

Found them .... Longines Movement. Excerpt shows a military Longines early 1940`s Mil. watch.

These AT-O are amazing! My understanding is that the Oliver movements came out of Longines 6B/159 12.68z

Lépine · Mar 25, 2023

Omegafanman
That is a great photo and he is obviously preparing for a mission or training needing detailed navigation. Not likely to be a single seat situation if using a Sextant? The parachute look a good design/ fits well. The myth is that a lot of pilots chose not to use them. Was that due to the design, culture and tradition, practical knowledge of their situation and likely outcomes? It’s another area not well explored it seems.
https://histclo.com/essay/war/ww2/air/naf/jap/jafpw-para.html
.

http://cb1100f.b10.coreserver.jp/collection3_a.html

I guess most pilots didn't use the parachutes because it was too awkward to fly with and they couldn't run to and get into the planes quickly under fire. Parachute definitely existed. I can also imagine that at an average age of 18 and about 110 lbs, the pilots wanted to carry less weight. Culturally, pilots were trained not to fear death. Of course we know the boys were very afraid but they did not show it. Japanese believe in continuous reincarnation. Hence very high suicide rates among young Japanese even today.