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Any experience with IWC factory restoration? [possible Ingenieur content]

Dan S
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I inherited an IWC from my father, it was his daily wear watch and his pride and joy. It's actually a very nice watch, well worn but high quality, in a 36.5mm stainless case, with cal 853 movement from the early 1960s. It's basically a poor-man's Ingenieur.

However, the dial was poorly repainted, which decreases my enjoyment of the watch. I have kept my eyes open for a good replacement dial for about 10 years now, without success. I have found dozens of dials, but none in a condition that is worth the effort.

Recently, I've started to consider factory restoration. (https://www.iwc.com/us-en/services/restoration). I'm sure that the price will be exorbitant, but my bigger doubt is whether the result will be at all satisfying to me. I've seen a number of members post the results of Omega vintage watch restoration, and I haven't found them appealing.

I'm wondering if anyone on OF has first-hand experience with IWC factory restoration. Photos of the watch below.

IMG_0373.webp IMG_0376.webp IMG_0374.webp IMG_0367.webp IMG_0372.webp IMG_0362.webp iwc_fathers_movement_1.webp iwc_fathers_movement_2.webp
 
Tony C.
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That case, crown, hands, movement cap, and serial number between the lugs are all consistent with a ref. 666 Ingenieur, and inconsistent with ordinary automatics that I am familiar with. The profile view is, I would say, further compelling evidence that it is a 666.

So...congratulations! Even if it won't make it easier to find a replacement dial. 馃榾
Edited:
 
Dan S
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Tony C. Tony C.
Are you certain that it is not an Ingenieur?!

That case, crown, hands, movement cap, and serial number between the lugs are all consistent with a ref. 666 Ingenieur, and inconsistent with ordinary automatics that I am familiar with. The profile view is, I would say, fairly compelling evidence that it is a 666.

So...congratulations! Even if it won't make it easier to find a replacement dial. 馃榾
Good point, Tony, I really have just assumed it's not an Ingenieur, but it has all of the outward signs as you mention. I suppose I had better figure that out for certain before doing anything about the dial. I think that IWC may have an archive service.
Edited:
 
HamDoctor
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I'll add that your watch also has the soft iron shield that is put between the caseback and the movement (because of the anti-magnetic properties of this material). This is a further indication that you may actually have an Ingenieur on your hands here. (EDIT: just noticed that @Tony C. already mentioned the movement cap - me and my reading comprehension!)

Not that I'm an expert at this, but I also found it a "compelling piece of evidence".

Another, very much weaker piece is that the movement has the words "adjusted to five positions" engraved, which would fit with a top-of-the-line watch of that time. That said, IWC has been adding this info sporadically, as in: I can't make heads or tails of when they would use this, and when they would not. Still, it might be an indicator.

So if you really have an Ingenieur here, that would very much change the perspective on getting a replacement dial. There are soooo many fake Ingenieur watches out there (I swear there's a guy running around with a rubber stamp to "upgrade" any IWC to an Ingenieur!). Any loose dial floating about would be super suspect, I think.

Then again, if this is an Ingenieur, the cost of a professional restoration at the mothership suddenly seem to make more sense, man-maths-wise.
 
Tony C.
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If, by chance, any readers would care to wager that it is not a ref. 666 Ingenieur, I'm prepared to take the other side of the bet. 馃榿
 
Tony C.
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BTW, assuming that while the dial face was refinished, the indices are original, it is a rather uncommon variation. But I was able to find what I believe to be the same style (no larger image, unfortunately), albeit in gold furniture, on the classic Dial Variations site:

666ff.webp
 
gatorcpa
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Dan S Dan S
Much appreciated. I had researched the numbers in the past, but didn't have that information handy.
If you go to the website, there are tabs with more detailed information. Looks to me like it was cased at the factory in 1962.

gatorcpa
 
Dan S
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Tony C. Tony C.
BTW, assuming that while the dial face was refinished, the indices are original, it is a rather uncommon variation. But I was able to find what I believe to be the same style (no larger image, unfortunately), albeit in gold furniture, on the classic Dial Variations site:

666ff.webp
That is a great find.
 
Dan S
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Small update. I contacted the IWC heritage department. Currently they claim they are only providing historical information as part of a Certificate of Authenticity process, which requires me to send them the watch. It looks like the price is 300 CHF, or almost $400 USD at the current rate of exchange.

They would also offer me "service" options (whatever that means) after inspection. Thinking about it.

I also made a post at the IWC forum, as Evan suggested, but no responses yet. As a control experiment, I also made a thread there to show a nice little vintage IWC that people there would probably appreciate, just to see if anyone is reading.
Edited:
 
Tony C.
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Dan S Dan S
I also made a post at the IWC forum, as Evan suggested, but no responses yet.
I was quite active on their old forum, many years ago. It seems that a number of the knowledgable old posters remain active, but I have the impression that it is not as active as it once was.
 
gatorcpa
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@Dan S -

Do you happen to live anywhere near an IWC Boutique?

I know the one near me has a watchmaker on staff. I keep on forgetting to bring my watch to them to reverse the bracelet that was put on backwards (Dennis? 馃槈)

Although it鈥檚 highly doubtful they would be able to work on your watch, they might have more success contacting the right people at the mother ship to see if a service dial exists for a Ref. 666. If so, they may be able to find out what a full restoration would cost without sending it to Switzerland for an extract.

gatorcpa
 
Dan S
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gatorcpa gatorcpa
@Dan S -

Do you happen to live anywhere near an IWC Boutique?

I know the one near me has a watchmaker on staff. I keep on forgetting to bring my watch to them to reverse the bracelet that was put on backwards (Dennis? 馃槈)

Although it鈥檚 highly doubtful they would be able to work on your watch, they might have more success contacting the right people at the mother ship to see if a service dial exists for a Ref. 666. If so, they may be able to find out what a full restoration would cost without sending it to Switzerland for an extract.

gatorcpa
I've been toying with that idea, but your suggestion is making me lean more strongly in that direction. There's apparently a boutique about 45 minutes away. I will give them a call, and maybe I will go there later this week when I have some time. If nothing else, I can learn more about the authentication process.
 
Tony C.
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Dan S Dan S
I've been toying with that idea, but your suggestion is making me lean more strongly in that direction. There's apparently a boutique about 45 minutes away.
It will be interesting to learn the result. As a hardened cynic, I am skeptical that the authentication fee could be avoided, unless, perhaps, the customer happened to also be poised to purchase an expensive new IWC. If they are able to confirm that service dials are available, be sure to press them on the question of whether or not it is possible to have that part alone replaced. In my experience, and from what I have heard, watch companies are increasingly inclined to insist on "full" restorations of vintage watches, which would of course be very expensive. Hopefully IWC hasn't gone down that dubious path yet.
 
gatorcpa
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Tony C. Tony C.
Hopefully IWC hasn't gone down that dubious path yet.
I鈥檓 sure they have. It鈥檚 going to be an expensive proposition to restore this watch to its former glory, regardless of who does it.

The question is whether IWC has a proper dial or not. If @Dan S can get that answer without sending it away for 3-6 months, then the drive is worth it.

It鈥檚 a Hail Mary play, looking for a pass interference call to get you one more chance.
gatorcpa
 
50kopek
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I can certainly understand the desire to restore or replace the dial and in general am all for restoring watches to their original glory. Since there are sure to be sentimental aspects in play in this case, I would give in consideration that there may be some value in keeping the watch the way your father wore it, with the dial that he used to check the time on.
 
davidrw
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If it were mine, I would get the archive extract or COA first so you know exactly what you have before you spend real money chasing a dial fix. Factory restoration can look too new for a watch with honest wear, so I would only do it if you are comfortable with service parts and a cleaner finish.
 
gatorcpa
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davidrw davidrw
If it were mine, I would get the archive extract or COA first so you know exactly what you have before you spend real money chasing a dial fix.
IMO, to pay for the Extract from IWC without having them service the watch and replace (not refinish) the dial is a waste of $400. I think there is a good chance IWC would give you the Extract if you paid for the full restoration.

I鈥檝e seen enough evidence on this thread to make an educated guess at what he has. The Extract only has value if he wants to sell the watch, which I don鈥檛 think is going to happen.
gatorcpa
 
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