Advice on how to be a safer buyer

engben · Feb 7, 2020

I purchased an Omega Speedy FOIS on this forum over the Fall with success due to me buying the seller (references, answered all questions in a timely manner, lots of positive feedback etc). I also purchased a watch on watchexchange on reddit through F2F with success as well.

I am looking to buy another watch, however it is located in Canada (I am based in NYC). A F2F will be more challenging and the preference of payment is a bank wire transfer. Are bank wire transfers safe (since I believe you need to know the persons information such as name, address and account?

What are other steps I can do to make sure this is a safe transaction?

Would requesting a picture of the person's ID (driver's license or passport) next to the watch with a timestamp help?

Bill Sohne · Feb 7, 2020

hmm... just off topic... maybe seller should always say... location.. in sales post.. like GTA ( Greater Toronto Area ) ... NYC etc....
might just start local physical communities... as I am in the NYC area , I used to have a small GTG every 6 or 7 weeks ... with local watch people ... sometimes meet goes for 5 hours ... trading and sales etc... its only 5 - 8 people ... I just have not done it since sept since I we in the middle of doing condo audits that were due....

I was thinking of starting up again... ...

best
bill

Martin_F · Feb 7, 2020

Look at it this way, if something went wrong, after the fact a plane ticket to Toronto would have sounded like great insurance.
If you're worried, maybe you have to budget that cost into the watch purchase from the start.
Not sure what value you're talking about here, but if he's not willing to send you a picture of his passport, that would be a flag to me.

I recently sold a car across the Atlantic and the buyer sent me his passport right away as a showing of good faith.
I didn't expect that, but he seems to have dealt with this situation before and it was standard procedure for him.

Good luck with your purchase!

Larry S · Feb 7, 2020

If a seller is unwilling to share his/her credentials and address with you, why should you share yours? Wire transfers? Not no but hell no with a stranger. Paypal please. F2F only at a secure location like a police stations safe trade zone.

bardamu · Feb 7, 2020

I started local some years ago but I ended up buying (and selling) watches online from all over the world now.
I always buy the seller, or the buyer, first.
My comfort zone is the italian forum I attend most, orologi&passioni, a great place to be. A lot of good transactions over there.
OF also, of course, is great.
But you always have to do your homework before buying: 1) I never pay via bank wire unless I know the seller or he has very good references; 2) I always look for some traces online about the guy I'm going to do business with, googleing email address, name or telephone number before paying: a lot of scammers are serial ones, so you often can find complaints about them online 3) If I'm evaluating a watch by pics sent by the seller, I look online for that pics being already used by someone else in the past.
If I am the seller, I expect others doing the same with me. Feedbacks from previous transactions are very, very important.

engben · Feb 7, 2020

Martin_F
Look at it this way, if something went wrong, after the fact a plane ticket to Toronto would have sounded like great insurance.
If you're worried, maybe you have to budget that cost into the watch purchase from the start.
Not sure what value you're talking about here, but if he's not willing to send you a picture of his passport, that would be a flag to me.

I recently sold a car across the Atlantic and the buyer sent me his passport right away as a showing of good faith.
I didn't expect that, but he seems to have dealt with this situation before and it was standard procedure for him.

Good luck with your purchase!

Thanks @Martin_F. You do make a good point about a plane ticket, the purchase is around $12k (which is quite a bit of change for me, I know it may not be for some)

How else did you protect yourself when you sold the car across the pond?

six-barrel · Feb 7, 2020

Where in Canada is the seller?

engben · Feb 7, 2020

six-barrel
Where in Canada is the seller?

Halifax, Nova Scotia.

I am based in NYC

engben · Feb 7, 2020

Larry S
If a seller is unwilling to share his/her credentials and address with you, why should you share yours? Wire transfers? Not no but hell no with a stranger. Paypal please. F2F only at a secure location like a police stations safe trade zone.

It is not that he is unwilling, I just have not asked yet/gotten to the point where I am fully committed to purchasing the watch. I am getting closer to the point where I potentially do want to purchase the watch but don’t know what questions I should ask as a buyer to be safer.

Dan S · Feb 7, 2020

Many, many threads on this topic, so if you want some extra reading, do a search. Here is another one that is still on the first page:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/purchasing-from-private-sellers-less-established-dealers.108835/

Ultimately, each sale is unique, and you need to use your gut and common sense. If the seller and buyer are not able to develop trust in each other by sharing information, it will be extremely difficult to navigate a transaction by process alone. The buyer likes PP G&S, but the seller doesn't trust it. Vice versa for bank transfer. Etc.

If the seller seems sketchy (like he isn't always answering your questions completely, or is making funny excuses), but you feel like you are getting sucked in by the prospect of getting a great deal, then you are probably falling for a scam. Go slow and extend the conversation a bit. As the dialogue lengthens, the difference between a scammer and a good seller gets more obvious.

gostang9 · Feb 7, 2020

I have made 9 watch purchases online, and in each case I sent full funds in advance via either TransferWise or PP F&F. I knew it was risky, and that in each case I would potentially lose all of the funds. However, each seller had enough posts on OF for me to feel confident they were not a fly-by-night seller/scammer and that they valued their reputation. My total spend was around $13k USD (so lower valued watches than what you're considering), but for me they all worked out.

FWIW, I have recently listed a few watches for sale and I would be okay with submitting evidence (licence, passport, etc) to a buyer if needed.

Larry S · Feb 7, 2020

gostang9
I have made 9 watch purchases online, and in each case I sent full funds in advance via either TransferWise or PP F&F. I knew it was risky, and that in each case I would potentially lose all of the funds. However, each seller had enough posts on OF for me to feel confident they were not a fly-by-night seller/scammer and that they valued their reputation. My total spend was around $13k USD (so lower valued watches than what you're considering), but for me they all worked out.

FWIW, I have recently listed a few watches for sale and I would be okay with submitting evidence (licence, passport, etc) to a buyer if needed.

So have I. Very different vs a stranger though.

STANDY · Feb 7, 2020

Wouldn’t send via bank transfer unless I knew the person. Most people I have purchased watches from on here are people I have had a bit to do with or know they are highly reputable.

I posted the below only the other day

STANDY
Every watch I have ever bought over the internet.
I was comfortably prepared to loose the coin. (could deal with loosing it no issue)
Every watch I wasn’t I bought from bricks and mortar stores.

$29k I would fly to anywhere in the world

connieseamaster · Feb 7, 2020

Halifax is a lovely city. Make a weekend out of it. Round trip flight sfor the end of February are $300 according to Google. IMO, if the cost of F2F is less than 10% of the sale, just do the F2F.

gostang9 · Feb 7, 2020

Larry S
So have I. Very different vs a stranger though.

I guess I should have clarified, each of the sellers I sent money to was a "stranger" other than posts on OF.

Dan S · Feb 7, 2020

gostang9
I guess I should have clarified, each of the sellers I sent money to was a "stranger" other than posts on OF.

I was wondering about that too. Maybe to @Larry S, we are not strangers. 😀

Larry S · Feb 7, 2020

Dan S
I was wondering about that too. Maybe to @Larry S, we are not strangers. 😀

I must confess, I’ve met a few members here in person, corresponded privately with many more, done business with quite a few and never been scorched. One can tell if someone is “invested” enough here in this thing of ours to trust. When that is not the case, I’ve seen the backlash. It aint pretty.

Dan S · Feb 7, 2020

Larry S
I must confess, I’ve met a few members here in person, corresponded privately with many more, done business with quite a few and never been scorched. One can tell if someone is “invested” enough here in this thing of ours to trust. When that is not the case, I’ve seen the backlash. It aint pretty.

I agree with you. It’s better when the trust develops organically, even online. That doesn’t just happen magically after 200 posts.

gostang9 · Feb 7, 2020

Dan S
I was wondering about that too. Maybe to @Larry S, we are not strangers. 😀

One might think someone you've only dealt with online is more of a "stranger" than someone you've met in person. Ironically, the 9 purchases I made online all went smoothly (apart from minor bumps - that were quickly addressed) and the 1 purchase F2F was the one I was most disappointed with and later realized I'd been completely lied to in order to sell for a premium.

On some level, the added risk of dealing with an online person led me to use more caution (appropriate), while dealing in person had me lower my guard (in the end not appropriate). Prime example of moral hazard at work.

gostang9 · Feb 7, 2020

Larry S
I must confess, I’ve met a few members here in person, corresponded privately with many more, done business with quite a few and never been scorched. One can tell if someone is “invested” enough here in this thing of ours to trust. When that is not the case, I’ve seen the backlash. It aint pretty.

Same here. For all the silly debate about the arbitrary '200 post' rule prior to selling, the intent behind it is huge.

Advice on how to be a safer buyer

engben

Bill Sohne

Martin_F

Larry S

bardamu

engben

six-barrel

engben

engben

Dan S

gostang9

Larry S

STANDY

connieseamaster

gostang9

Dan S

Larry S

Dan S

gostang9

gostang9

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