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Purchasing from private sellers/less established dealers

Evose
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Posing this question in light of recent events exposing Chris from HorologyHouse; where a well-known, established and reputable seller was caught scamming customers that wired 20k+ in funds before receiving their watches.

I'm in the market for a specific timepiece that can only be purchased second hand. Given the nature of the price, I'm overly cautious with my approach. But being relatively newer to the hobby, I don't know the ins and outs of how to properly communicate and ask all the pertinent questions to best ascertain risk, and ensure I don't get scammed.

I'm sure some of you have gone through this exercise and know what to watch out for, what stories scammers can tell you, etc. I'm really looking for some guidance as I'm sure others would be interested in this topic as well.

Many thanks!
 
wsfarrell
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1. Do as much research as you can on your own. AFTER doing your research,

2. Post good pictures of the watch here. People will tell you quickly if there's something wrong with it. If you decide to buy the watch,

3. Don't wire money or use PayPal Friends & Family. Use PayPal Goods & Services. It's the only way you'll get your money back if something goes wrong.
 
CaptainWinsor
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Also, ask here if anyone has dealt with the seller. Get good hi res pictures to post here. Find out the terms of the seller etc
 
OMEGuy
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I made my best purchases buying from private sellers and / or commercial sellers. I wouldn't make a clear distinction.

I believe there's no 100% sure way to avoid being scammed. I think you have to put 1 and 1 together each time you decide to go for a deal.
 
Evose
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CaptainWinsor CaptainWinsor
Also, ask here if anyone has dealt with the seller. Get good hi res pictures to post here. Find out the terms of the seller etc
I posted over on TRF for a specific watch. Seller only has a couple posts in their history.
 
ATWG
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Evose Evose
I posted over on TRF for a specific watch. Seller only has a couple posts in their history.
Stay away, buy from sellers with established presence on forums and good references. You have to vigilant.

Once, a seller sent a picture of the watch for sale along side his drivers license.
 
ericjasman
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I would highly recommend only buying from sellers with a bunch of who's who reccomendations on TRF to mimize risk. You may have to be patient and wait for the right person to be selling your specific watch.
 
UncleBuck
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See the watch with a current newspaper/tv show to verify they have it.
Pay with all the protection you can get (paypal/credit card, no bank transfer).
Video package opening with witnesses, preferably the shipper.
If convenient or valuable enough, make a road trip vacation out of it.
 
janice&fred
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I think the shock waves of this Aussie guy's stunt will subside and things will settle back in soon enough. Stories like him are not all that common and the vast majority of private selling forum members and dealers are fine. Let's not endow this latest con man with such significance. Sure give it some thought but let's not get too carried away.
 
GandOsDad
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I have not been scammed but would now only buy pieces from established members of this forum or an AD. Just too many scammers out there IMO....and I value the education this forum has provided to bring that point home.
 
speedyproftw
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Also be careful about people posing as well known sellers. I've gotten emails from scammers who change one letter or add a number to an email address pretending to be the person I have done business with before. Sometimes they will look on forums to see what sellers you have left positive feedback about and then target you pretending to be that person.
 
janice&fred
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UncleBuck UncleBuck
The $ risk or personal value of the piece affects my paranoia level.

yes I guess it all depends on the amount of $ involved. We primarily do our watch hunting in person so we're not real concerned and whenever we sell pieces online it's usually small potatoes compared to these Daytona purchases people are wiring money all over the place for.
 
Baz9614
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ATWG ATWG
Stay away, buy from sellers with established presence on forums and good references. You have to vigilant.

Once, a seller sent a picture of the watch for sale along side his drivers license.
I actually request this when buying or selling (rarely sell) . If they’re legit they generally don’t have a issue with it.
 
Evose
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Baz9614 Baz9614
I actually request this when buying or selling (rarely sell) . If they’re legit they generally don’t have a issue with it.
Seems like a good way to find out who's legitimate.
 
Baz9614
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Evose Evose
Seems like a good way to find out who's legitimate.
Adding a piece of mail to confirm address is another thing I request
 
ericjasman
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Interesting. These are great suggestions for the next time I purchase a watch. I usually only stick to very well known sellers and fortunately haven't had any issues (knock on wood).
 
K
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Established or not, ask for references, DL etc. if they are new to selling watches they will understand your apprehension and ‘trust but verify’ approach. Use these and other forums, FB, other dealers to help verify the watch. Make sure they have a 48-72 return period

I have a well known dealer that will receive the watch and authenticate it. If you don’t, it might be worth using the paid authentication services that some of the prominent dealers offer.

There are many ways to cover yourself and sometimes common sense is the first one. The Horology House incident was a little suspect to start with imo and the watch was not a great fake but I suppose you would have to have some existing knowledge and possibly something to compare it to in the metal
 
STANDY
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Evose Evose
I posted over on TRF for a specific watch. Seller only has a couple posts in their history.

Well this is asking for trouble 🤦

Find the watch then do the research.

WTB for a $20k watch is like “who wants to take my money” “hey I got money who wants it”
 
eugeneandresson
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If a guy has references on a forum, from other members, you can hit the other members up. It’s better if the other members have a better online presence in the case of a guy with little to zero feedback. I met a fantastic guy with zero presence/feedback here who responded to a wtb...when I found out who he was and where he worked, it was kind of clear all would be ok. That’s hard to explain, but it was also in the way he communicated. And it was a pleasure dealing with him. I gave him a good rating, and then another day someone asked me about my transaction with him...all good. I dealt with him again.

Still, caveat emptor always applies. Be vigilant and if something doesn’t feel right, rather don’t.

Edit : I still could have been scammed (identity theft)...however it was a 3 figure item (and then another time, 4 figures). Not so certain I would be taking any chances with 5 figures...would have to be a vetted seller/member with great reputation.
Edited:
 
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