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Advice for cal. 321 Speedmaster purchase

A
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Hello!

I am considering stepping my toes in the vintage Omega world for the first time. I am particularly interested in Speedmasters with the 321 movement.
I have found this sales post on a norwegian watch forum. Could the experienced Speedmaster owners/collectors here take a look and tell me what you think?

The text basically says:
-cal 321
-serial 25442626 (which dates the watch to 1967)
-reference 145-012-68 Sp
-bezel and bracelet from a later reference
-recent service
-works as it should
-no box or papers
-one owner for over 20 years

Is the darkened lume on the hour markers a concern or does the price reflect this?
What do you think of the condition of the case? Anything else worth noting?

I plan to use the watch carefully in rotation with other watches, and not have it as a safe queen.

The seller asks for NOK 46000, the equivalent of USD 5000 given today's exchange rate.

https://www.tidssonen.no/forum/threads/omega-speedmaster-cal-321-1967.57471/


Edit: I don't mind if the bezel and bracelet are incorrect for the reference as long as it is reflected in the price.
Edited:
 
gemini4
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Pass on this.
Bezel, bracelet are incorrect.
Movement is not original to a 145.012-68
 
cvrle1
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Personally I am not a fan of that lume or most of the watch myself. Lume is missing from quite few markers, that green swamp color is not appealing at all, and new DNN bezel is no go either. Unless there is proof that service was done (receipt, or some sort of paperwork) I wouldnt even take that into consideration when making a decision on a watch. Case doesnt look polished, which is only good thing for me at least.
 
mickygee
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gemini4 gemini4
Pass on this.
Bezel, bracelet are incorrect.
Movement is not original to a 145.012-68
"movement not from 145.012" i think this fact alone is enough to pass on the watch
 
JanV
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gemini4 gemini4
Pass on this.
Bezel, bracelet are incorrect.
Movement is not original to a 145.012-68
A 25m serial not ok for a 145.012-68? 😕
Am I missing something?

Serienummer 25442626
Referanse 145-012-68 Sp
Ø = 41,5 og 43 mm med pushere
 
gemini4
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145.012-68 is the last 321 caliber SPEEDMASTER and is a rare reference, when correct.
The movement number should 2655xxxx ish.

A 2544xxxx movement IMHO, is too early for the OP watch and is correct for a 105.003-65, a 105.012-65 and 105.012-66 SPEEDMASTER.
2544xxxx 321 Cailber movements are also found in 145.006-66 Seamasters and can serve as donor movements in Speedmasters.
Edited:
 
mickygee
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actually, forgot i have a 145.012 speedy with a very early 25mil movement and extract to corroborate. so not sure what to make of that
 
gemini4
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mickygee mickygee
actually, forgot i have a 145.012 speedy with a very early 25mil movement and extract to corroborate. so not sure what to make of that

2500xxxx are seen in reference 145.012-67
 
A
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Thank you for your responses. It's very helpful for a watch enthusiast whose oldest watch at the moment is a 16 years old IWC Doppel with box and papers and service history.
Do we think that, unless the seller has mixed up the years in the reference number, this movement did not start life in this case? Are there no chance that an older movement lingered around, and was cased at the factory in 1968?
I will of course ask the seller about this before I pull the trigger, and it's always nice to prepare those questions.
Again, the later bezel and bracelet don't bother me. I'm glad the case looks good, but the movement should be original. I'm not looking for the perfect original and unrestored Speedmaster, but I'm looking for the genuine article, and I want to wear it regularly.
I'm on the fence regarding the lume, but what do you think of the price, all things considered, and provided that the movement is original to the case?
Edited:
 
Dan S
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A Amund
Thank you for your responses. It's very helpful for a watch enthusiast whose oldest watch at the moment is a 16 years old IWC Doppel with box and papers and service history.
Do we think that, unless the seller has mixed up the years in the reference number, this movement did not start life in this case? Are there no chance that an older movement lingered around, and was cased at the factory in 1968?
I will of course ask the seller about this before I pull the trigger, and it's always nice to prepare those questions.
Again, the later bezel and bracelet don't bother me. I'm glad the case looks good, but the movement should be original. I'm not looking for the perfect original and unrestored Speedmaster, but I'm looking for the genuine article, and I want to wear it regularly.
I'm on the fence regarding the lume, but what do you think of the price, all things considered, and provided that the movement is original to the case?

As mentioned, the movement is not correct for a 145.012-68. If you get information from the seller that suggests he has made a mistake with the reference number, then let us know, and we can give you some thoughts about the price. Even better, add photos to this thread (instead of posting a link), including new photos of the inside of the watch. With the current uncertainties, there's no way to answer your question in a meaningful way. What reference would we even be giving a value for?
 
padders
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I have one of the earliest 145.012-68s and it’s at 26,551XXX, date confirmed by extract as 1/11/68. There are -67s dated 2 days before mine. I agree with the above, if the serial is much lower then either the movement or caseback has been swapped. It doesn’t look particularly nice either. One to avoid.
 
JanV
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gemini4 gemini4
145.012-68 is the last 321 caliber SPEEDMASTER and is a rare reference, when correct.
The movement number should 2655xxxx ish.

A 2544xxxx movement IMHO, is too early for the OP watch and is correct for a 105.003-65, a 105.012-65 and 105.012-66 SPEEDMASTER.
2544xxxx 321 Cailber movements are also found in 145.006-66 Seamasters and can serve as donor movements in Speedmasters.
Great wealth of knowledge here! 👍 Thanks for the update and correction, as i was in the belief that any serial between 24.066 to 26.554 was seen as correct for a 145.012 -68. MWO has this range in their e-book.
 
Toishome
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A Amund
Hello!

I am considering stepping my toes in the vintage Omega world for the first time. I am particularly interested in Speedmasters with the 321 movement.
I have found this sales post on a norwegian watch forum. Could the experienced Speedmaster owners/collectors here take a look and tell me what you think?

The text basically says:
-cal 321
-serial 25442626 (which dates the watch to 1967)
-reference 145-012-68 Sp
-bezel and bracelet from a later reference
-recent service
-works as it should
-no box or papers
-one owner for over 20 years

Is the darkened lume on the hour markers a concern or does the price reflect this?
What do you think of the condition of the case? Anything else worth noting?

I plan to use the watch carefully in rotation with other watches, and not have it as a safe queen.

The seller asks for NOK 46000, the equivalent of USD 5000 given today's exchange rate.

https://www.tidssonen.no/forum/threads/omega-speedmaster-cal-321-1967.57471/


Edit: I don't mind if the bezel and bracelet are incorrect for the reference as long as it is reflected in the price.

Yet another place i have to search for watches 🤦
 
padders
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JanV JanV
Great wealth of knowledge here! 👍 Thanks for the update and correction, as i was in the belief that any serial between 24.066 to 26.554 was seen as correct for a 145.012 -68. MWO has this range in their e-book.
MWO combines the -67 and -68 onto one page so the serial range you suggest included -67 models. At least the ebook version does, am not at home to check the full hard copy book but I would suggest it is the same, or at least the same data. Personally I wouldn't trust a -68 with a lower serial than 26,55X,XXX
E670DD04-4B6D-41BC-A152-6BF90D0D9146.png
 
Dan S
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padders padders
I have one of the earliest 145.012-68s and it’s at 26,551XXX, date confirmed by extract as 1/11/68. There are -67s dated 2 days before mine. I agree with the above, if the serial is much lower then either the movement or caseback has been swapped. It doesn’t look particularly nice either. One to avoid.

A bit OT, but I’m pretty sure there are -67s dated after your -68 as well. There seems to have been some use of both casebacks in 1968.
 
mr_yossarian
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JanV JanV
Great wealth of knowledge here! 👍 Thanks for the update and correction, as i was in the belief that any serial between 24.066 to 26.554 was seen as correct for a 145.012 -68. MWO has this range in their e-book.

Not your fault 😀
The more precise table concerning serial batches and corresponding references is not in the book, but a bit hidden on the website. Enjoy.
http://www.moonwatchonly.com/omega-...view-of-the-speedmaster-moonwatch-production/
 
P
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I’m certainly not going to go against any of what is said above re the serial number/caseback discrepancy, I’m always blown away by the knowledge here

What I would say is that if you look around the European market currently you’ll probably not find another 321 movement speedy for that money, in fact later post transitional 861 (ie non AML dials) models are typically being offered (I state offered) at the equivalent of US$5000-60000. Transitional models being offered at US$7000 or higher.

I posted in another thread a week or so ago that I thought UK/EU prices had risen US$600-1000 since mid summer, I’d say that’s very much an under estimate of EU prices now we are into October. Late 321s are nearing US$10k from what I’ve seen listed on eBay and chrono24 in the last 7-10 days Again what someone asks isn’t any indication of what a watch might sell under offer but certainly prices are rising. I’ve also noted that a good 25% off watches I’ve had on eBay watch have resulted in sellers sending me offers of 6-15% off their BIN, often just a few days after listing, so perhaps prices are not as firm as they were either.

Prices are lower in the US but shipping and import charges basically mean you’re paying near EU prices by the time the watch is in your possession.
 
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