Community Stories

Advice appreciated: new member contacted me for sale

Dan S
Posts
24,606
Likes
54,642
The OF listings are included in consolidator sites like watchrecon, and I agree that it's probably common for people to register on OF in order to buy a watch. That was the case for me, in fact. If the buyer has bought and sold watches on eBay and/or seems to know about watches and has an IG account, then he would seem to be a legit buyer. It shouldn't be hard to determine this through a bit of back-and-forth. If so, then he probably wants the OP's watch and the contact is not some sort of random internet hack.

As always, if there is something about your interactions with a buyer that concerns you, then don't sell him the watch. If you don't want to sell to new members at all, then you can include that in your listing. In fact, many issues can be avoided by putting a little more effort into including details in the listing. The OP says nothing about how he wants to receive payment, whether shipping costs are included, etc.
 
The Father
Posts
2,810
Likes
14,885
I have a separate account at the bank with a couple dollars in it. For bank wires I provide this account. That is my safe guard against any unscrupulous activity from anyone when it comes to sharing banking info.
 
Shabbaz
Posts
5,001
Likes
18,563
gbesq gbesq
Are you sure that you're correct about wire transfers?
Well. I dont think my bank will return money after a transfer unless somebody can proof I'm frauduleus. And even then it would be very hard I suppose. I really dont think it's possible to get your money back.

With paypal... well paypal sucks IMHO for sellers. Although I still sell from time to time through paypal but I try to avoid it. The reason is this...

A couple of years ago I've sold a redialed connie through paypal. I stated clearly in the add it was a redial. The watch came from a tropical climate so probably the dial was effected in the past. I also said this in the add. I asked a much lower price (i think it was around EUR 500). In that time you had 180 days to start a claim with paypal. He started his claim after app. 177 days. He said he did not know it was a redial. I said to paypal the guy was crazy and I send the original add to paypal and I showed them I was completely transparant about this. Nevertheless paypal refunded. I said to the guy from paypal that he's a complete $%# and I would do everything in my power to avoid paypal in the future. That's why I'm selling on chrono. I hate paypal.
 
rcs914
Posts
2,510
Likes
3,734
Drb477 Drb477
My understanding is wire transfers are generally considered non reversible, but in reality, as with most things, the whole story is a little more complicated. That said, reversing a wire transfer is very difficult especially if the money has been moved out of the account. On the other hand, disputing paypal is very easy to do.

I'd do something on ebay to prove the account is his such as message him on ebay to confirm rather than just assume its him because screennames match as that would be pretty easy to fake.

I'd imagine its fairly common for people to see a watch for sale they want, register an account to inquire about it, but otherwise have no interest in contributing to message boards.

When i sent the wire transfer to pay off my house you better believe I double, triple, and quadruple checked all the numbers with the person on the phone at USAA to initiate the transfer, because it was made clear to me that they were essentially non-reversible. And as soon as it was done I called Wells Fargo and made them verify that it was received. I assume this is the same if someone is selling a 2915-1 too.
 
A
Posts
82
Likes
164
So I actually had something of a similar situation recently - although from the standpoint of the other side, which is to say that I’m relatively new member who reached out to a long time OF member who had a watch for sale. The seller got back to me saying that the watch was definitely still for sale - so great news.

I don’t have a long purchase history (only a couple pieces over the years), and hence no real reference history for the seller to lean on. That said, I offered to pay the seller in whatever way they preferred (I even offered to help with shipping even though the listed price included shipping), as well as offered to get on the phone with them to chat and to make the funds transfer live so they could see it come in. The piece in question wasn’t something you’d re-mortgage your house for either ($1000 USD), although price is irrelevant for the principle of the story here.

Anyway, in the end, the seller walked back their “definitely still for sale” and decided that they preferred to keep the piece - either because they didn’t trust me, or because they rekindled some connection to the piece and couldn’t part with it. I lean towards the former. But this is all to say as a buyer without a long reference history, it’s up to you to do whatever you can to make the seller as comfortable as possible, and if they don’t turn the corner, well, that’s just life. It’s nothing personal and I expect I’d do the same thing in a seller’s position if ever I was not completely sure.

It’s a bit of a chicken and egg situation for new members to get references - you need them to get a watch, but you can’t get a watch without them. The lesson learned here for a new member (i.e me) is just be open to working with any sellers who will work with you - but fully expect that some won't. The gates will open eventually, just have to be patient, and don’t take anything personal when you don’t get a piece you were after.

To the OP, speaking as a new member (and newish buyer), if your buyer isn’t open to your preferred method of doing a deal, then I’d walk.
 
Renton
Posts
296
Likes
1,081
Hi guys - many thanks to those that have chipped in. I think in such a scenario, i typically have no qualms giving bank account details in order to get paid. As some have rightly pointed out, this is actually one of the safest modes of payment, compared to say, paypal. In fact, I have done so for other watches sold to other members.

But i Guess, this scenario was slightly different (and the first time i’ve faced it) - the buyer is a totally new member. Created the account on the same day he sent me the PM. Coupled with lack of references from any other watch forums or platforms, that was what got me thinking and I Guess my cautious/paranoid side came into play.

I also do appreciate some members saying that the ads here do get reposted on watchrecon and stuff so there is always the chance a legit buyer who doesn’t surf OF chances upon the ad on watchrecon and then creates an account on OF to contact the seller. So yeah... just need to strike a balance in all things!
 
Braindrain
Posts
777
Likes
1,380
As I understand, true wire transfers are irreversible. There are stories in the media every so often about someone who's been defrauded but the bank can't do anything *because it was a wire*.

Where I've heard there may be issues is when it's not a true wire. Some fraudster uses the same bank, or deposits a bad cheque into someone's account, and it bounces. True wires have a fee taken off, and easily verifiable if you just contact/call the bank.
 
RonJ
Posts
504
Likes
1,953
The Father The Father
I have a separate account at the bank with a couple dollars in it. For bank wires I provide this account. That is my safe guard against any unscrupulous activity from anyone when it comes to sharing banking info.

I do the same thing.

Ask your bank to set up a separate checking account. My bank did this in the U.S. about 15 years ago and I've used it as a firewall type of account ever since.

.
 
janice&fred
Posts
4,593
Likes
10,810
Scarecrow Boat Scarecrow Boat
However, for a wire transfer, you’ll want to buy the buyer and work with someone you trust.

Could you explain? If someone wires money to our account and our account balance reflects that the money is there and available then what are the hazards you allude to? As Dan mentioned, I have never heard of any issues with giving bank account info for a transfer either. The money is there or it's not. fairly simple.
 
take57
Posts
58
Likes
65
Scarecrow Boat Scarecrow Boat
This thread had a lot of good Info

https://omegaforums.net/threads/how-safe-are-bank-transfers-for-the-seller.28602/


This isn’t a turn off for me in regards to selling as I have sold pieces to brand new members that told me “I created my account just to buy this.” We happened to be close enough to do F2F. Not everyone is a member to every forum because not everyone wants to be one. They may be familiar with WatchRecon, which displays the sales of all the forums. However, for a wire transfer, you’ll want to buy the buyer and work with someone you trust. If you can’t bring yourself to trust this transaction, you have all the power to decline. Someone will eventually come along that you can trust with the sale.
I had to do something similar on an art purchase a few years back. I saw the piece but the only way I could contact the artist was via Facebook (which I've made a life mission to avoid). Opened an account, arranged a F2F with the artist for the purchase and then promptly closed the FB account. It happens.
 
janice&fred
Posts
4,593
Likes
10,810
Scarecrow Boat Scarecrow Boat
Have you read anything I have written or are you fixated on a few words?

I quoted your words exactly. The entire sentence. So why would someone need to "buy the buyer" when it comes to a bank transfer?
 
janice&fred
Posts
4,593
Likes
10,810
Scarecrow Boat Scarecrow Boat
Quote the whole thing...

Quoting the entire thread still doesn't explain your entire sentence I quoted. This is why some people are squeamish to trust wire transfers. Vague warnings.
 
Archer
Posts
29,909
Likes
77,345
Braindrain Braindrain
As I understand, true wire transfers are irreversible. There are stories in the media every so often about someone who's been defrauded but the bank can't do anything *because it was a wire*.

Where I've heard there may be issues is when it's not a true wire. Some fraudster uses the same bank, or deposits a bad cheque into someone's account, and it bounces. True wires have a fee taken off, and easily verifiable if you just contact/call the bank.

Yes - when I get a wire in, it actually says "WIRE" in the description. If it says anything different you need to contact your bank and confirm it was a wire, and not some other form of deposit.

I have sent many wires to suppliers in Europe for watch parts, bulk movement and case purchases, etc. My bank has always warned me that they cannot be reversed, so all the information needs to be done right.
 
RonJ
Posts
504
Likes
1,953
I'm no expert on identity theft or banking fraud, but it seems it is fairly dangerous in general to share your bank account number and bank routing number and name on the account with strangers (which is the info they need to know to send you a wire transfer).

Admittedly, this info is on the bottom of every check you write, but writing paper checks has become a relatively rare event in modern times.

And, if you notice, you can pay for almost anything online with an "e-check" where you enter your account number and routing number into a web page. You can pay your property tax bill, your electric bill, your credit card bill, etc. through online bank payments drafted directly out of your checking account. And, if you can do these online transactions, so could a criminal that knows your bank info.

And, with modern computer scanners, photoshop, and laser printers, it would be easy to forge a bogus paper check with your bank account numbers on the bottom of it. The criminal would deposit one or more of your forged checks or use the forged paper checks to pay for things he wanted to buy.

And, it would make sense that shady people could even sell your bank data to criminals on the dark web. And they can get more money if they also know things like your legal name, email id, phone number, home address, etc. Selling your identity info on the dark web gives them a small amount of quick money and no connection to the later identity theft or fraud activities that other dark web criminals do with that data.

I don't have any direct evidence of this being a wide-spread problem but it seems logical that it is a risk to some extent.
.
Edited:
 
Shabbaz
Posts
5,001
Likes
18,563
RonJ RonJ-in-VA
I'm no expert on identity theft or banking fraud, but it seems it is fairly dangerous in general to share your bank account number and bank routing number and name on the account with strangers (which is the info they need to know to send you a wire transfer).

Admittedly, this info is on the bottom of every check you write, but writing paper checks has become a relatively rare event in modern times.

And, if you notice, you can pay for almost anything online with an "e-check" where you enter your account number and routing number into a web page. You can pay your property tax bill, your electric bill, your credit card bill, etc. through online bank payments drafted directly out of your checking account. And, if you can do these online transactions, so could a criminal that knows your bank info.

And, with modern computer scanners, photoshop, and laser printers, it would be easy to forge a bogus paper check with your bank account numbers on the bottom of it. The criminal would deposit one or more of your forged checks or use the forged paper checks to pay for things he wanted to buy.

And, it would make sense that shady people could even sell your bank data to criminals on the dark web. And they can get more money if they also know things like your legal name, email id, phone number, home address, etc. Selling your identity info on the dark web gives them a small amount of quick money and no connection to the later identity theft or fraud activities that other dark web criminals do with that data.

I don't have any direct evidence of this being a wide-spread problem but it seems logical that it is a risk to some extent.
.
I still dont see the danger. When I give my IBAN bankaccount to somebody it's still useless without the inlog data. If they succeed in getting my inlog data without my help I'm covered by the bank.

Edit: But of course I understand you should be a carefull over the internet. I would'nt give my bankaccount right away. First I want to get to know the other a bit and do some due dilligence.
Edited:
 
RonJ
Posts
504
Likes
1,953
Shabbaz Shabbaz
I still dont see the danger. When I give my IBAN bankaccount to somebody it's still useless without the inlog data. If they succeed in getting my inlog data without my help I'm covered by the bank.

Edit: But of course I understand you should be a carefull over the internet. I would'nt give my bankaccount right away. First I want to get to know the other a bit and do some due dilligence.

My understanding is the USA does not use the IBAN system yet. So, for us, we would still use the standard bank routing number that is the same number printed on the bottom of checks.

.
 
Shabbaz
Posts
5,001
Likes
18,563
RonJ RonJ-in-VA
My understanding is the USA does not use the IBAN system yet. So, for us, we would still use the standard bank routing number that is the same number printed on the bottom of checks.

.
Ah. Checks. We dont use them anymore. Like 30 years. 😁 Although you still see them in France.
 
Zapatta
Posts
1,567
Likes
12,409
Personally, only bought one watch on chrono24 and never sold a watch online. All my purchases were made face to face. Now, I see a watch on this forum that I want to buy? What to do? Seems like bank transfer is safest option? For me it makes no difference, I'm open for all options.
 
ZIELSZIEK
Posts
333
Likes
735
I gave my IBAN all the time when I sold nixie tubes. I had a policy stating that whoever pays by wire gets free shipping.
So far nobody helped themselves to the 74 euro currently residing in my account.
I was also skeptical at first when I sold my first watch online but 5 sold watches later all is good
 
90 More Posts...
Sign up or log in to reply...

Similar threads

backfourseconds

Info/advice appreciated on 1959-61 Constellation

backfourseconds Vintage Omega Watches Help, Discussion and Advice
STANDY
STANDY
Posts
12
Views
1K
cicindela

***PLEASE READ*** PRIVATE SELLERS & BUYERS SALES RULES FOR ALL LISTINGS INC PARTS & WTB

cicindela Wanted To Buy
cicindela
cicindela
Posts
0
Views
24K