AD Watchmaker polished my watch against my express wishes—how to resolve?

jaspers · May 21, 2022

Evitzee
Four pages in to this saga and not a picture of the refinished watch; was it expertly done, poorly done, something else? This forum puts a lot of importance on seeing pics, yet no one has said a peep about no images provided. I know the OP is upset because the nicks and bumps on his beater (his word) were erased but a couple of pics of the watch would add some context to the discussion. I don't see how getting a new case would have been the path forward IF the case was excellently touched up

pictures uploaded. It’s strange how they seem to have only polished on side of the case. On the crown side you can see clear edges and bevels, which have been somewhat crudely polished out on the opposite side of the case. It’s really not that well done.

rob#1 · May 21, 2022

cvalue13
This is an interesting take by ORIS, and one I’ll need to sleep on.

Yep, a very defensive approach, just covering their backs lest the pesky consumer tries it on later. But couldn’t they just take a time stamped photo instead, and follow the instructions about not polishing? Wouldn’t this would be quicker and cheaper?

Archer · May 21, 2022

rob#1
Yep, a very defensive approach, just covering their backs lest the pesky consumer tries it on later. But couldn’t they just take a time stamped photo instead, and follow the instructions about not polishing? Wouldn’t this would be quicker and cheaper?

Not sure who develops corporate policies at Oris, but actually telling customers "We do this because we don't trust you" doesn;t seem to be a good strategy for building brand loyalty.

I used to service a lot of Oris watches. Through that I was directed to a forum based in Australia called Friends Of Oris Forum, or FOOF. It was run by an Oris AD, and was a great forum run by some great people, there were a lot of fun videos made, and this was back when not everyone was making videos. They were selling watches all over the world so it was an international forum, and it was the only really dedicated Oris forum I knew of at the time. It was all good and everyone seemed to be benefitting from it.

Back then, the distributor here in Canada refused to sell parts, but the distributor in the US didn't have any issues doing so, and I would buy any Oris specific parts from them. Then everything seemed to change - the Oris distributor was changed in the US, so parts were cut off. The people who ran FOOF were told they couldn't sell outside of Australia - the forum and business eventually died as the brand became more controlling of everything.

It's always been a brand I've liked, offering very reasonably priced watches of good quality, with some cool designs. It's unfortunate that they seem to be working hard to alienate their customers.

tyrantlizardrex · May 21, 2022

Archer
It's always been a brand I've liked, offering very reasonably priced watches of good quality, with some cool designs. It's unfortunate that they seem to be working hard to alienate their customers.

I think someone in their HQ leadership team has been reading the Rolex playbook, and rather than doing a really good job of being Oris, has decided they should try to be a Rolex clone instead.

It's not pretty to watch, and it's not making me want to give them my money.

cvalue13 · May 21, 2022

rob#1
But couldn’t they just take a time stamped photo instead, and follow the instructions about not polishing?

Setting aside whether Oris handled this specific instance properly even according to their own expectations (it appears they admit they did not, in that they suggest they should not have accepted the watch in the first), and setting aside whether we might hope Oris would have different expectations of itself having errored in their own policies :

I do not think it would be “quicker and cheaper” to take photos etc., in that from an operational/process perspective that requires developing a not insignificant secondary process and decision tree effecting all services in order to address the request of what is certainly a Oris rare customer with a strong aversion to polish.

With Oris’s current process, all that is needed is a record of servicing a specific watch whatsoever, and in the background a default position that all service watches have been polished of any material dings at service, so there’s nothing more for the company to collect, track, review, etc. From a process and operations perspective, it’s a very simple action tree.

Conversely, a secondary and concurrent policy of photographing of the rare customer’s watch not seeking polish would be considerable more operationally/process involved.

Which highlights a point to bare in mind from the Oris perspective: it’s surely a tiny fraction of Oris watch owners that might ask for their watch to not be polished, vs the vast majority that affirmatively desire and expect a polish with any service. So not only is there an incentive to polish all watches, but also an incentive to not inject exemptions: from the error-cost perspective, the risk of polishing a watch the owner didn’t want polished is far less than the risk of not polishing a watch the owner did expect to be polished.

Least of all from a brand such as Oris, I am not surprised to find they have no desire to create additional processes to accommodate the rare Oris client with a strong aversion to polishing a watch in a service, especially since their usual customer surely expects a polish.

This, of course, is separate from expecting Oris to at the very least behave according to its own policies by not accepting the watch for service in the first place, or if accepted for service in error to then somehow make it “customer is always right” correct.

Archer · May 21, 2022

cvalue13
With Oris’s current process, all that is needed is a record of servicing a specific watch whatsoever, and in the background a default position that all service watches have been polished of any material dings at service, so there’s nothing more for the company to collect, track, review, etc. From a process and operations perspective, it’s a very simple action tree.

Conversely, a secondary and concurrent policy of photographing of the rare customer’s watch not seeking polish would be considerable more operationally/process involved.

I think one thing to keep in mind is that this is not an either/or situation. I have access to all of Omegas brand and service policies, and there's nothing in any of them to suggest that refinishing a watch is mandatory, let alone that it should be done to be able to detect a customer trying to scam the brand. In fact I know of no other brand that has such a policy, yet somehow they are able to make decisions on customer's watches, and apply their warranties in a way that makes sense, and where generally both parties are happy.

Omega essentially bends over backwards on warranty claims to be fair to the customer (based on their policies and how they are written), while Oris seems to believe that customers are always on the verge of trying to get a free service they don't deserve. Now not every service or every employee always follows the policies, and mistakes can happen, but here there seems to be a completely different mindset at work with Oris.

cvalue13 · May 21, 2022

Archer
I have access to all of Omegas brand and service policies, and there's nothing in any of them to suggest that refinishing a watch is mandatory, let alone that it should be done to be able to detect a customer trying to scam the brand. In fact I know of no other brand that has such a policy, yet somehow they are able to make decisions on customer's watches, and apply their warranties in a way that makes sense, and where generally both parties are happy.

certainly didn’t intend to suggest otherwise

that said, regarding Omega, Rolex, and other manufacturers with more nuanced policies, do we not have many posts regarding errors, or cautioning owners to - eg - not send a watch for service unless willing to risk errors regarding polishing instructions?

perhaps I’m miss-remembering, but it sure seems we rarely tell people to expect no polish-related risks from any manufacturer, much less one at the price point of Oris

Archer · May 21, 2022

cvalue13
certainly didn’t intend to suggest otherwise

that said, regarding Omega, Rolex, and other manufacturers with more nuanced policies, do we not have many posts regarding errors, or cautioning owners to - eg - not send a watch for service unless willing to risk errors regarding polishing instructions?

perhaps I’m miss-remembering, but it sure seems we rarely tell people to expect no polish-related risks from any manufacturer, much less one at the price point of Oris

Yes, I think the part of my post that you cut off addresses this point...

Archer
Now not every service or every employee always follows the policies, and mistakes can happen,

To state the obvious, there's a very big difference between asking for it not to be polished, and them accidentally polishing it, and telling people it's policy to polish because we can't trust you.

tikkathree · May 21, 2022

Archer
That's a new one...

They wanted to replace the lightly scarred crystal, I didn't want a new look watch.

Archer
I've seen on other forums people saying the same recently, but with different brands. One example was Rolex - the watch went back and forth a couple of times without the bracelet, and then they said they couldn't take it without it. When they finally did take it, they tried to charge to owner for a new bracelet.

I'm not the kind of person to make a game of "my missing bracelet - where is it, what are you doing to replace it?"

cvalue13 · May 21, 2022

Archer
To state the obvious, there's a very big difference between asking for it not to be polished, and them accidentally polishing it, and telling people it's policy to polish because we can't trust you.

i vaguely get this “trust” line of thinking, but can you spell it out?

the Oris point as I understand it is, their warranty covers (basically) failure of parts except to the extent the failure is caused by some significant trauma to the watch. so, no matter what, when evaluating the watch to judge the source of failure they’ll be looking for any number of signs of trauma vs normal failure, no? seems that “distrust” is built in, regardless, no?

for what it’s worth, perhaps I’m also unconsciously biased by the suspicion that the full rationale of the polish procedure has not been either completely explicated to OP (or by OP to us?) - I don’t think Oris, for example, would be the first we’d hear of a broader principle of “when a watch leaves our service, it is fully treated and aesthetically perfected” - isn’t that basically the rationale of the many stories we hear coming from Rolex? Admittedly I’m filling in gaps here, but feels reasonable to think Oris is not intending to assert that it’s sole reason for polishing is to evidence future trauma to the watch

cvalue13 · May 21, 2022

BTW I don’t want to lose the thread here that, in my view, the fundamental point is that Oris (or its representatives) made the mistake in accepting the watch - and that mistake seems unaddressed by the company.

to be moved on from, but not forgotten

Archer · May 21, 2022

cvalue13
i vaguely get this “trust” line of thinking, but can you spell it out?

jaspers
what the Oris rep told me is that they “laser polish” (their words) any nicks/dents out of the case to prevent having to issue warranty when the customer drops/damages the watch when still under warranty. They can point to new signs of damage on the case and then refuse to issue warranty on the service.

If they didn't refinish the cases, the customer could say that dent was there before the last service, so isn't the cause of the current problem.

Edit to add - there are definitely ways of knowing if a watch was subjected to an impact, that have nothing to do with the external appearance, just to be clear.

Omega D · May 21, 2022

Archer
Not sure who develops corporate policies at Oris, but actually telling customers "We do this because we don't trust you" doesn;t seem to be a good strategy for building brand loyalty.

I used to service a lot of Oris watches. Through that I was directed to a forum based in Australia called Friends Of Oris Forum, or FOOF. It was run by an Oris AD, and was a great forum run by some great people, there were a lot of fun videos made, and this was back when not everyone was making videos. They were selling watches all over the world so it was an international forum, and it was the only really dedicated Oris forum I knew of at the time. It was all good and everyone seemed to be benefitting from it.

Back then, the distributor here in Canada refused to sell parts, but the distributor in the US didn't have any issues doing so, and I would buy any Oris specific parts from them. Then everything seemed to change - the Oris distributor was changed in the US, so parts were cut off. The people who ran FOOF were told they couldn't sell outside of Australia - the forum and business eventually died as the brand became more controlling of everything.

It's always been a brand I've liked, offering very reasonably priced watches of good quality, with some cool designs. It's unfortunate that they seem to be working hard to alienate their customers.

I used to watch that channel, they had a lot of enthusiasm for the brand.

Evitzee · May 21, 2022

So what's the game plan going forward, @jaspers? I'm not sure you are going to get much response out of Oris at this point.

jaspers · May 22, 2022

Gee great question, @Evitzee. Thanks for helping me in my thinking (also @Archer and @cvalue13). I was expecting some more response to the photo’s I posted—would you agree the polishing is somewhat crude and that it’s weird in general they polished only one side (opposite to the crown) of the case?

The miscommunication between Oris service, Oris sales and the AD seem to be the root of the problem. They have had multiple opportunities to notify me of their policy to polish out all dents, especially because the service center inspected the watch first before offering me a quote on the service. My request not to polish was put on the service slip in capital letters by the AD. The fault is so clearly with them, and it baffles me how they double down in their ways rather than trying to make things right with me. I know what’s done is done here. Can’t undo this. But if they don’t want to go along with my suggested solution, why don’t they consider an (any?) alternative resolution? This approach is just so far removed from my own way of owning up to mistakes and taking responsibility for my own actions.

anyway, next steps. I’m considering taking it further up the chain with Oris, write the president or other upper management. Alternatively I could try to mobilize insta, but that’s not really my style plus I have a meager 500 followers. I will not let this rest though. No way.

https://www.instagram.com/doc_daneeka/?hl=en

tyrantlizardrex · May 22, 2022

@jaspers where in the world is the AD you took this in to? And do you know where the service centre they sent it to is?

I know Josh will always try to help as much as he can, but is it’s outside of the USA where he’s based, there are limits to what he can do.

You can always try Oris’ Chairman, Ulrich Herzog - [email protected]

jaspers · May 22, 2022

tyrantlizardrex
@jaspers where in the world is the AD you took this in to? And do you know where the service centre they sent it to is?

AD and service center are in the Netherlands. Thanks for passing on the CEO’s email. Josh has been very helpful and courteous—too bad I’m no longer based in his neck of the woods…

tyrantlizardrex · May 22, 2022

Looking at the images you posted @jaspers I think there are now two issue in play:

1 - They polished the case without asking you.

2 - They did a really bad job.

Putting issue one aside for a moment, given the (poor) quality of the polishing job, my view is that they should be replacing the case because they have damaged it. If their goal was to "return it to original specification" or some other such nonsense, it's very clear to see that they have failed.

For a company like Oris, a new case is not expensive at cost - and I'll be honest, the damage done by this thread is likely now way outstripping that cost.

Omega D · May 22, 2022

Sorry if this may of been mentioned earlier. Have you gone to the Oris AD and compared your watch with a brand new one? Perhaps go back to the AD and compare twice. Then put it in a draw for a week and try to forget it, clear your mind. After this reconsider next step.

kippyk · May 22, 2022

This situation reminds me of a personal experience I had at Burger King. I am definitely not one of "those guys" who complains about things. This happened thirty years ago. I was at a Burger King and ordered a "cheeseburger with raw onions and pickles". I received my burger, and it also had ketchup on it thus making the burger inedible to my sophisticated palate. I went back to the counter to remedy the mistake. The Manager of the location insisting on arguing with me that the burger was made correctly. After some confusion, I came to understand his argument that a "cheeseburger" menu item at Burger King comes by definiton with bun + burger + cheese + ketchup. I guess he expected me to know this, and it was my fault for ordering incorrectly. I was supposed to order "cheeseburger" with raw onions and pickles + hold the ketchup. I insisted that only in the Burger King Universe does ordering a "cheeseburger" imply that you want ketchup. I told him that I guess I am too stupid to eat at Burger King.

Any service at Oris includes polishing whether you want it or not. A "note" to not polish will be promptly ignored, and most likely never delivered to the service person. Unless there is an official checkbox in the service order to NOT POLISH, it's gonna get polished.

AD Watchmaker polished my watch against my express wishes—how to resolve?

jaspers

rob#1

Archer

tyrantlizardrex

cvalue13

Archer

cvalue13

Archer

tikkathree

cvalue13

cvalue13

Archer

Omega D

Evitzee

jaspers

tyrantlizardrex

jaspers

tyrantlizardrex

Omega D

kippyk

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