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A Review of the 2019 GPHG Horological Revelation winner, aka the Ming 17.06 Copper

  1. Braindrain Aug 7, 2020

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    I’ve recently acquired the Ming 17.06 Copper dial from a local watch enthusiast and friend. In searching for reviews online to assist my decision of whether to acquire, I came across many press-day releases quoting off PR literature, but not many (read: almost non-existent) reviews from unbiased and everyday watch nerds.

    So, I thought that I’d give it a go at one.

    Ming, being a very young company, was started in 2017. It was somewhat on my radar when they released the 17.01 but I had forgotten about it shortly afterwards. The company hit my radar again after announcing their 17.06 Copper was up for consideration for the Horological Revelation category in the 2019 GPHG awards. My interest was piqued but, to be honest, the watch and its’ run of 300 watches had already sold out. Yes, Ming states on their website they plan to produce 300 of the 17.06 Copper dials every year but, really, I don’t see that happening.

    What to do? Luckily, a friend of mine had snagged an online order from Ming. Delivery took a little longer than expected, but he finally received his watch. Then, COVID-19 hit! I was unable to see the watch, in the metal, and was reduced to exchanging pics via Whatsapp with him, and reading aforementioned press-day releases.

    I had mentioned fairly early on that I’d be in the market if he ever wanted to sell it. Months later, I “got the call”. After some short wheeling and dealing, we sealed the deal. Also, I had no idea when I’d actually receive it, but nonetheless immediately ordered a custom strap for the watch. A few days ago, on the day I received the watch, the strap came in on the same day. The watch gods are truly smiling at me!

    I’ve had a few days to wear the watch and to photograph it endlessly. Here are my thoughts.

    First, the dial. This had to come first. It’s the star of the show. At launch, there was a copper and monolith dial. While I don’t want to disparage anyone who bought the monolith, for me, it would be the copper and no other. The etched copper dial is reminiscent of old-world guilloche, but modernized. The additional sapphire glass chapter ring provides layers of depth that belies the watch’s 10mm total thickness. The outer chapter ring has been said to exhibit a “floating” aesthetic, due to the Super Luminova markers painted on top of it. It seems as though the sapphire glass was etched out and filled with lume. Very nice.

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    Next, the hands. For me, this is probably one of the toughest things to get right with a watch. Heat blued hands would be totally out of place, as would be sword hands. The Ming hands remind me of FPJ but not a complete replica. In short, it matches the overall modern vibe of the watch quite well. The next photos show off the outer chapter ring and the hands.

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    Other thoughts on the dial? After collecting for over 20 years, I’m pretty confident in knowing what I like. While the 17.06 is not a pure dress watch, I apply similar expectations for it. Meaning, the dial should be uncluttered, easy to read, and, most importantly, be devoid of unnecessary writing. Certified chronometer? Depth ratings? Automatic? Those ridiculous additions would immediately disqualify any dress watch from consideration. The best part is that the Ming name is cleverly integrated into the chapter ring. You’d have to look for it, if you didn’t know it was there. It reminds me of the hidden Cartier signature. A compliment, really.

    Second, the case. For me, this is just as important as the dial. The overall diameter, excluding crown, is 38mm. Per Ming, the case has been milled out of a solid block of steel so as to avoid the use of a spacer ring. While keeping it 38mm is commendable, I’d prefer the watch 1 or 2 mm smaller. Don’t get me wrong. A lot of thought went into ensuring the proportions of the centre guilloche and the chapter ring perfectly fit the 38mm diameter. However, knowing the movement is an ETA 2824, there’s definitely room for a smaller case and, to be perfectly selfish, a 36mm case fits me better. Yeah, that’s it.

    While we’re on the subject of the movement, the Ming 17.06 uses the ETA 2824 Top grade movement. It’s better than the Standard or Elabore, having further technical refinements (which I won’t get into), and identical to the Chronometer grade. The Ming website states the watch was regulated in 5 positions, but am unclear whether they did it or whether their etablisseur did it for them. No matter, as the ETA 2824 is a true workhorse and, if a company is going to use it unmodified, the Top grade is probably the best choice. But, per my earlier comment about having a smaller case diameter, the 2824 only has a 25.6mm diameter, so a smaller case size is definitely within the realm of possibility. However, I realize only a handful of people (myself included) would be interested in it. An additional point of note is that Ming removed the ghost date wheel click. Nice touch and good attention to detail.

    Ok, with that aside, back to the case. The 17.06 is made of steel, which is quite different than the titanium construction of the 17.01. While I have never owned nor handled the 17.01, I have owned another watch with a titanium case. While titanium is “lighter and stronger”, I’m not sure that really presents itself in the real world. One may notice the difference in weight but, really, after an hour or so of wearing it, I don’t really notice any watch being a burden on my wrist. What I am painfully aware of is that titanium is unforgiving for scratches. Yes, it’s virtually impossible to refinish titanium. So, while I don’t plan on waving my arms around gleefully in the air while wearing the watch, I’ll be happy to know that any micro-scratches are super easy to take out.

    With the case, come the lugs. Oh, those beautiful scalloped lugs. I have been looking for a vintage watch with big, beautiful teardrop/claw lugs but haven’t found an example that I like. Having the 17.06 scratches that itch. They are beautiful, bar none. They aren’t, just as importantly, so big that they become a scratch magnet. Point for Ming. An additional but often overlooked lug design is the depth of the lug. Meaning, do they extend all the way down the case? Or, do they stop short and give the watch an overall “hockey puck” feel. (Early Lange Dato, Parmigiani Kalpa, et al, I’m looking at YOU.) I am very happy to state that it’s the former, the full extension of the lugs, giving the wearer a satisfying feeling that the watch is almost “integrated” into one’s wrist. Yeah, love it.

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    Next on the case, the crown. At first glance, the crown seems like a heathen on a dress watch. But, at closer examination, the ridged crown provides a good firm grip and is quite the pleasure to hold. Hand winding the 2824 (yes, I know it’s an automatic) is a pleasure. Not quite the clickety-click of well made vintage manual movements like the Valjoux 72, but nonetheless provides a refined feel to the user. I had to think about this for a long time. My current (final?) thought is that the crown is a good match. The 17.06 follows a dress watch design principle but is infused with modern language. A dainty dress watch crown would feel quite out of place.

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    Finally, the finishing on the case. There seems to be the standard side brushing with polished surfaces on the bezel and on top of the lugs. I really don’t have much to say here. It seems (and I’m sure) machine made and doesn’t exhibit and ooze the quality a hand-made case would have. But, I don’t expect it to.

    Lastly, the strap. The 17.06 comes with a hand-made Jean Rousseau strap. I should also clarify that, while hand made, it’s not hand stitched. After conversing with a good friend of mine, who happens to be a strap maker, that’s not necessarily a sign of inferior quality. And, he’s right. The strap itself is extremely well made, materials are top notch, and the quick-release curved springbar is actually fairly solid. What I *didn’t like* about the strap was that it was monochromatic. Copper coloured strap paired with a copper dialed watch. Yeah, there’s some contrasting off-white stitching. Ok, fair point. But I didn’t get a watch that exhibited this level of wild (for a watch) details only to have it washed out with a strap that didn’t exhibit the same flair.

    After taking inspiration from the Gronefeld brothers and my strap making friend, I decided on a nubuck (sanded, matte) blue ostrich strap with contrasting copper coloured hand stitching. Curved lugs, of course, with padding. I normally request all my straps not to have padding but, on a modern watch, padding seems to work well. Here’s the before, during, and after. Yes, I quite enjoyed changing the strap.

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    While changing the strap, Ming provided something that very few others have done. They have provided 2 sets of springbar holes, 1 set for straight, another set for curved. Good show, Ming. Good show!

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    As showing the preceding pic, Ming used a solid caseback. Really, I didn’t see an option for anything else. The first reason would be to keep the overall case thickness to a minimum. And second, I would want an exhibition back if there was something to see. Per Ming’s own specs, it’s an unmodified 2824. Nothing to see. Even if they added a customized rotor and machined in some perlage, it’s still a 2824. I can Google images of a 2824, if I really needed to. Yes, that’s also my complaint to other watch brands out there.

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    What did I miss? The buckle, you say? Ok, here’s a picture of a buckle. Sort of a standard buckle with Ming’s name on it. There you go. Nothing really to write home about and I only use deployants, anyways.

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    My final thoughts. Ming did a fantastic job, considering the MSRP on the watch. It’s clear a lot of thought went into the design and execution of the watch. No off-the-shelf case and dials here. A quality production.

    Was it all roses? No. As mentioned earlier, I would have loved a 36mm case, but I suspect that would have severely limited Ming’s customer base. I replaced the strap right out of the gate, but that’s me. Other than that, it’s really hard to find fault. That’s saying a lot, as I am usually super picky on my watches.

    And, as always, actions speak louder than words. Over 20+ years of watch collecting, my attention started with moderns. However, I eventually lost interest as the offerings from most watch brands were the same watch (maybe a refreshed dial) and those relentless price hikes with no real improvements to the watch. I eventually sold off my entire collection of moderns and went full-on into vintage. Finding my niche and the absolute variety and depth of designs, I was happy.

    Having said that, I had never forgotten about moderns. It’s just very few watches have been produced that truly interest me and meet my criteria. The Ming 17.06, I’m proud to admit, is my 2nd modern watch in my vintage collecting phase. I’m putting my money where my mouth is.

    And, to anticipate your question about what my 1st modern watch acquisition was in my current vintage focus? The Halios bronze Seaforth in a custom purple dial. Well, custom in the sense that only 3 exist in the world. The story on this guy is for another day.

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    Thanks for making it this far with me.
    Kendall
     
    Edited Aug 8, 2020
  2. Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Aug 7, 2020

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    Nice review. I admit it's a nice watch for the money.

    "An additional point of note is that Ming removed the ghost date wheel click. Nice touch and good attention to detail."

    I have had several requests from people to make this mod on watches that don't have the date when I am servicing the watch. All you have to do is replace the 2824-2 setting lever jumper with one from the 2801 - costs a few bucks and takes a few minutes, but it is a nice touch for sure.
     
    watchyouwant likes this.
  3. dsacks30 Aug 7, 2020

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    Thanks for the review. This is especially useful because like you mentioned there aren't many reviews out there and once Ming releases a new watch you have literally five minutes (if that) to look at the photos and decide whether you want to spend a few thousand dollars. You posted the review the same morning that Ming released the 18.01 diver's watch, and I was trying to figure out whether I would want it and watched it sell out.

    You mentioned you love the scalloped lugs, and obviously that is a big part of his design language but I haven't been too sure about it, concerned it wouldn't hug the wrist well. Could you post a wrist shot?
     
  4. Braindrain Aug 7, 2020

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    Thanks Al! I wasnt sure how it was done.
     
  5. Braindrain Aug 7, 2020

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    Of course! I did twist my arm a bit, in order to show a friend the sapphire chapter ring.

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  6. Perrier Jul 25, 2023

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    Thanks for the review! To each their own of course. I feel though, that these Ming watches look like something which should cost $200, and they won't keep their value. I don't see the appeal in the brand.
     
  7. Braindrain Jul 25, 2023

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    Any reason to dig up and comment on a 3 year old thread?

    Other than still trying to reach that 100 post count?
     
    Edited Jul 25, 2023
  8. Perrier Jul 26, 2023

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    I wish there was a dislike comment for toxic comments like this. Why would I care about reaching "100" posts? WTF

    I was reading about Ming watches using the search function.

    EDIT: Just realised I'm already on 140 posts. LOL
     
    Edited Jul 29, 2023
  9. Redondo444 Jul 26, 2023

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    I don't see anything bad in digging up old posts/threads.

    Assuming this is also the perspective of the forum community/owners.
    If it's a bad thing - there would be a autolock on threads where no new posts are to be found after a certain period of time. Which is obviously not the case.

    But thanks for sharing your view.
     
    Perrier likes this.
  10. Braindrain Jul 26, 2023

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    I have no problem if there's significant value add, but when there isn't...

    But thanks for sharing your view.
     
  11. Perrier Jul 26, 2023

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    Sounds like you only want people to agree with you. Contrary opinions add value too.

    Take care.
     
  12. Braindrain Jul 26, 2023

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    I have no problem with contrary ideas. But just saying "it looks like a $200 watch" adds value?

    Why? Case finishing? Dial construction? Movement used? Or just a dislike of all things Ming?

    I will be the first to say it's not a $5k usd watch, which is what it peaked at. 1200 chf? Sure. Show me a CH mfr with the same MSRP with a better value prop.