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'67 Speedy ref. 145.012 - Advice and thoughts on first luxury watch

  1. DennyDane

    DennyDane Mar 25, 2020 7:08am

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    Hi all,

    I am new to this forum and also to watch collecting.
    I wanted my first luxury timepiece to be of both historical and sentimental importance, and therefore started looking for a ref. 145.012 speedy from 1967 (preferably as this is the year in which both my parents were born).

    I found the timepiece pictured in this post, which is sold by a retailer here in Switzerland where I live.
    I've tried doing as much research I could on the originality of the watch and its parts and found nothing particularly unnerving (I found this article very helpful in doing the research).

    The seller asks USD 10,500 but doesn't give much information about the watch other than it is completely original, in good condition and keeps time + the chronograph works as it should. I am inspecting the watch in person this weekend.

    This is a large investment for me (as it probably would be for anyone) and I would therefore greatly appreciate any helpful advice, thoughts, suggestions or words of caution that you may have.

    Thank you very much in advance!

    Nick

    90754864_231435538054913_7372660187942879232_n.jpg 90765421_530784384246711_3715009864792014848_n.jpg 90779157_496244014592294_3650271509206794240_n.jpg 90788803_206625680648135_5742316775911981056_n.jpg 90788811_492899378284142_8072676008207056896_n.jpg 90830532_929141547555742_2469606817970257920_n.jpg 90853166_3262733367092742_5050889447130791936_n.jpg 90919535_214546329630178_3735428826511966208_n.jpg 91028382_1143902999284952_930466276260708352_n.jpg 91037876_1304339539775658_8697632035113533440_n.jpg 91072256_209771656921705_2678229850736558080_n.jpg 91098815_506524313353844_3941533792967065600_n.jpg 91136276_516024689084889_3298800084673626112_n.jpg 91222411_891385987956853_7310046054462783488_n.jpg 91296999_278216836532265_687253196095094784_n.jpg 91337221_2519193574986233_8817128986044792832_n.jpg
     
    Edited Mar 25, 2020 10:00am
  2. eugeneandresson

    eugeneandresson Mar 25, 2020 9:15am

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    Overall it doesn't look too bad... its just that bezel (to me) looks like its been messed around with...that does not look like honest wear/ghosting...and as such, to me that is a bit of a value hit, as it looks unattractively wrong. How to monetize that? Thats the game. I feel (without writing an essay why) that the price is probably a bit too high with that bezel, as adding a better bezel will not give a watch worth the full price...

    Also : round these parts the words 'investement' and 'watch' in the same sentence/thread are usually cause of avoidance : I have chosen to assume by your use of investement here that 'you will spend a lot of money on a watch whose enjoyment shall be the return, but couldn't care if next week its 'worth' half the money put in'.
     
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  3. Dan S

    Dan S Mar 25, 2020 9:56am

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    Funny that you mentioned that, it was the first thing that jumped out at me as well. The fading looks artificial. At the same time, the photos are obviously HEAVILY manipulated, so it's a bit hard to judge.
     
  4. DennyDane

    DennyDane Mar 25, 2020 9:57am

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    Thanks for your inputs, appreciate it! I'll hopefully get a chance to ask the seller about the bezel. Could also just be the light in his photos I guess.
    And you are absolutely right, it's the historical significance that mainly attracts me to this reference (being a huge space race fan) - not the promise of a return.
     
  5. Dan S

    Dan S Mar 25, 2020 9:59am

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    It's more than just lighting, he has obviously applied filters to those photos. No matter, since you will see it in person.
     
  6. DennyDane

    DennyDane Mar 25, 2020 10:10am

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    You're probably right, I know that this guy has his whole instagram-deal going as well, so wouldn't surprise me :)
     
  7. eugeneandresson

    eugeneandresson Mar 25, 2020 10:12am

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    You can ask him about the fade, but he will most likely say 'its age'... its not ;)
     
  8. DennyDane

    DennyDane Mar 25, 2020 10:31am

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    My bet is he doesn't have a clue as he's definitely not the first person to sell this particular watch
     
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  9. tantovincoio

    tantovincoio Mar 25, 2020 11:01am

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    Please note that the central chronograph hand its not correct for a 321 caliber but for a late 861 such as a 145022/69 DSCF6934.jpg
     
  10. DennyDane

    DennyDane Mar 25, 2020 11:09am

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    Really? I'm curious - how can you tell? I'm an absolute newbie, so keen to learn!
    When I compare against this picture from the article I linked in my original post, I don't see a difference ::confused2::
    OMEGA-Speedmaster-Blue-Dial-3651.jpg
     
  11. Dan S

    Dan S Mar 25, 2020 11:12am

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    The conventional wisdom is that 145.012 can have either type of sweep hand, and this is also indicated in MWO. I think there is at least one thread addressing this (maybe the same thread discussing 145.012-68 serials?), but I don't have a link to it handy. My memory is that some people seem to believe that there was a transition from one to the other throughout the production of the 145.012 reference, but I don't think that's absolutely clear.
     
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  12. MaiLollo

    MaiLollo Mar 25, 2020 11:15am

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    145.012-67s are accepted with both chrono sweeping hands, so it's not a problem
     
  13. mr_yossarian

    mr_yossarian Mar 25, 2020 11:51am

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    It is actually correct for a late 145.012. But the low 25xxx serial is a bit too early for the square end hand, shouldn't be a dealbreaker though.
     
  14. kingsrider

    kingsrider Thank you Sir! May I have another? Mar 25, 2020 12:05pm

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    I forget the tells on a counterfeit DON bezel. Is this bezel possibly a fake that has been manipulated?.
    It would seem improbable that someone would manipulate a good DON.
     
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  15. Dan S

    Dan S Mar 25, 2020 12:10pm

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    I had the same thought. Without going into too much detail (since it seems controversial to discuss these "tells"), I checked two of the most common errors, and they looked ok. I did not go over the entire bezel super carefully, but the OP might want to do that.
     
  16. tantovincoio

    tantovincoio Mar 25, 2020 12:21pm

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    I agree
     
  17. Flatfoot

    Flatfoot Mar 25, 2020 12:28pm

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    The crown appears to be a later service crown, and not a flat foot crown. Pushers look correct, but one or both may be replacements. The lower reset pusher looks a bit too shiny to my eye. However pushers get replaced and do not have a significant effect on values.

    Case appears to have some softer bevel edges near the lugs, rather than the original crisp, sharp edges I’d like to see. And more so, they do not appear to match up to the side case brushing which looks to be more recent.

    And at 25,002xxx serial I, too, would expect it to have the drop end Chrono hand - not the one currently fitted.

    Also, when I see the colors of the selling photos filtered as they are for this example, I do not gain any confidence in what is being presented. Filtered images fundamentally alter the way one would see the watch first hand. The lume in some of the images appears to have a greenish cast, which is not particularly appealing to my tastes, and yet some of the images don’t show that color. Id rather see a more pleasing tan or toasted almond color on the dial plots. Your F2F visit to see it firsthand will tell you a lot.

    Per the OP, the seller holds this watch out as being “all original” and yet I’m seeing several issues that contradict that statement. So for $10,500 USD it seems a bi dear to me. At a lower price, yes, this would be a nice watch to have.

    FWIW, I’d counsel a bit of patience, and see what other examples might turn up in the next few months.
     
  18. SpikiSpikester

    SpikiSpikester @ ΩF Staff Member Mar 25, 2020 12:39pm

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    To my eyes, the hour hand and sweephand are visibly newer than the minute hand and the lume on the hour plots. Like the others I can't decide if the bezel bothers me or not and would want to see it in person.

    Again, these aren't major issues - just factor them into how you evaluate the price you're prepared to pay.
     
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  19. DennyDane

    DennyDane Mar 25, 2020 1:03pm

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    Thank you all for your valuable input! I'm writing all of these down! :)
     
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  20. Flatfoot

    Flatfoot Mar 25, 2020 1:30pm

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    @DennyDane - if you’ve not checked out spacefruit’s site Speedmaster101.com, I believe you should do a deep dive into that before your visit to the seller this weekend. You can learn a lot about this particular reference, as well as other more general “things to look for” when it comes to speedmasters.
     
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