£5 Speedmaster

MtV · Oct 2, 2021

I don’t think there’s a generally valid right or wrong in such situations - in the end, it’s up to the individual to live with that decision and I don’t mean this to sound judgmental.

Personally, I could see this going both ways. To paint a picture, I wouldn’t hesitate buying it from the unfriendly dude who appears to me like money isn’t really an object anymore; it’s a different thing when the offer comes from the lovely widow who’s selling stuff from her/his SO because it’s a necessity.

Danwales · Oct 2, 2021

It's an interesting discussion this. I used to make a bit of beer money from buying and selling mens shoes. My hunting ground used to be the bottom end of the Fulham Road where charity ( thrift) stores would occasionally sell shoes from Trickers, Barker, Cheaney etc for £20 and under . Good bench made shoes. I recall once buying a pair of Cleverly brogues for a fiver knowing that I would get £200 at least on the bay and feeling a degree of guilt. How would I feel buying a watch for a fiver knowing it was worth thousands? I think I would expect a bit of karma to come around... boiler broken, head gasket blowout..something would happen.

JwRosenthal · Oct 2, 2021

MtV
I don’t think there’s a generally valid right or wrong in such situations - in the end, it’s up to the individual to live with that decision and I don’t mean this to sound judgmental.

Personally, I could see this going both ways. To paint a picture, I wouldn’t hesitate buying it from the unfriendly dude who appears to me like money isn’t really an object anymore; it’s a different thing when the offer comes from the lovely widow who’s selling stuff from her/his SO because it’s a necessity.

It is always relative to the situation and this is a true ethical dilemma- who do we think is worthy of pity/mercy. It’s not a matter of honesty in the OP’s situation (he didn’t get it for £5, he probably paid real money to the guy who did get it for £5). And the guy who got it for £5 just paid what was asked by a random seller at a boot sale- no ethical issue there IMO.
I had mentioned in a thread here long ago about how I used to service vintage stereo equipment and had a kid (20’s but a kid to me) tell me his tale of woe about his dead fathers collection of stereo equipment and how he just wants to enjoy it. I cut him some serious discounts on my costs (not just labor but parts), and felt good about it….until I saw the gear I serviced up on eBay at outrageous prices noting it had all been freshly serviced. When he called me back weeks later with more gear, wanting similar discounts, I said I would have to charge full price. I never heard from him again.

MtV · Oct 2, 2021

JwRosenthal
It is always relative to the situation and this is a true ethical dilemma- who do we think is worthy of pity/mercy. It’s not a matter of honesty in the OP’s situation (he didn’t get it for £5, he probably paid real money to the guy who did get it for £5). And the guy who got it for £5 just paid what was asked by a random seller at a boot sale- no ethical issue there IMO.
I had mentioned in a thread here long ago about how I used to service vintage stereo equipment and had a kid (20’s but a kid to me) tell me his tale of woe about his dead fathers collection of stereo equipment and how he just wants to enjoy it. I cut him some serious discounts on my costs (not just labor but parts), and felt good about it….until I saw the gear I serviced up on eBay at outrageous prices noting it had all been freshly serviced. When he called me back weeks later with more gear, wanting similar discounts, I said I would have to charge full price. I never heard from him again.

I remember that story - and I’m sorry this happened. Whenever I read something like this I’m just crossing fingers that whoever acted generously a) knows she/he still did something beautiful and inspiring and b)won’t be put off doing the same thing for the next person who appears to be in need.

Donn Chambers · Oct 2, 2021

Dan S
The problem is that if you try to educate the seller and offer them a fair price, it will generally just sour the deal, and they decide to hold onto the watch to do "research". Then they make a silly asking price or sell it to a dealer.

It’s so easy to look up approximate prices on things today, that If someone is selling something too cheap, it’s their problem, not mine. A simple Google search of “used Omega Speedmaster prices” would have turned up lots of info, all a lot more than 5 GBP.

Mouse_at_Large · Oct 2, 2021

The tendency of some members to vehemently denounce sellers who "overcharge/gouge/profiteer" and stand accused of attempting to fleece unsuspecting buyers always seems much louder than the noise generated by examples where someone has acquired something for way below "market value" (whatever that may mean at the time) from a less than savvy seller.

Just sayin' 😗

JwRosenthal · Oct 2, 2021

Mouse_at_Large
The tendency of some members to vehemently denounce sellers who "overcharge/gouge/profiteer" and stand accused of attempting to fleece unsuspecting buyers always seems much louder than the noise generated by examples where someone has acquired something for way below "market value" (whatever that may mean at the time) from a less than savvy seller.

Just sayin' 😗

I had a guy give me an Audio Research preamp. It was dead on one channel. I asked him “do you want me to check it out and fix it?” He said no, it’s broken, he doesn’t want it. I asked again “are you sure, it’s a nice preamp”. He said no- he already replaced it and it was just collecting dust in the corner.
I took it home and fixed it in about 5 minutes (cold solder joint). No, I didn’t call him and offer it back, it’s mine now- I asked twice.

rob#1 · Oct 2, 2021

You could debate this in Ethics 101 class, but at the end of the day it’s so easy to show due diligence and spend two minutes on the web (or have a relative or neighbour do it for you). I picked up a box of records for $0.00 the other week, a lot of dross but some gems that made the box worth over $600. I would have offered some $$$, but the seller just dumped the box on their driveway and didn’t want any contact, so their loss.

These stories do reinforce the thrill of the hunt though, keeping me looking in charity shops, flea markets, estate sales, etc. until I find Buzz Aldrin’s reverse panda titanium Ultraman 😎

pdxleaf · Oct 2, 2021

This ties into @Walrus thread on estate planning.

"Hey, I just found this amazing watch at an estate sale and they were so far undercharging that I gave them more money to at least pay wholesale..," said no one ever.

Don't depend on the good nature of your fellow collectors to get your heirs a fair price.

studeb · Oct 2, 2021

The other side of the coin, is if you dont buy it for $5, then someone else will, so at least honor the former caretaker and take it 😉
To Dan S and Eve, no good deed goes unpunished, doesn't it.

JwRosenthal · Oct 2, 2021

pdxleaf
This ties into @Walrus thread on estate planning.

"Hey, I just found this amazing watch at an estate sale and they were so far undercharging that I gave them more money to at least pay wholesale..," said no one ever.

Don't depend on the good nature of your fellow collectors to get your heirs a fair price.

I agree partially. But to put a more optimistic light on it, I have seen incredible generosity and kindness among this group of collectors. Yes, we all like a screaming deal, the boot sale find or the diamond in the rough. But when the shit hits the fan, I have seen even the most salty of this group act in the most humane ways.
I would like to think, that if something were to happen to me, that my wife could reach out to a few of the names she has heard me speak of from this group and be given help liquidating my collection for a fair price….except the Airking, she already said she is keeping that one.

Pianotuna · Oct 3, 2021

I buy and sell ‘stuff’ every day with the overwhelming majority being people who contact me. As a believer in karma and things that go round coming around again I try to offer fair value every time. But, when someone nominates a price first, then we have a starting point of negotiation and if their price/expectation is reasonable we’re likely to get a deal done.
As for the other side of the argument about moaning about someone ripping you off, I generally find that in that very occasional instance the chief culprit is probably me for pressing the buy button.

just for the record I have paid more for an item than was asked, but that’s just me.

Syzygy · Oct 3, 2021

[QUOTE="JwRosenthal, post: 1864206, member: 52920"….except the Airking, she already said she is keeping that one.[/QUOTE]

I recall finding a birthyear Airking, and as part of my research, asking you your opinion if the price was fair. I'm humbled and honored by the knowledge you've shared here...and if i stumbled upon an early Speedmaster for a fiver, after what I've learned here, I'd have a hard time slipping a five note and walking away. Then again, @Dan S has a valid point...offer xK and the seller may pull back and ask a ridiculous amount having just learned a lesson from a seasoned collector the value of this piece is much more than they expected...what to do, what to do? I tend to lean toward offering a fair number, a good deal for you, and a good deal for the seller.

That said, I also agree with everyone saying ''do your research and figure out the appropriate price". It is fairly easy, even for the beginner, to cross check value with a few tickles of the keyboard.

JDub, thank you for your advice...that Airking is a coveted piece in my collection, and I've told my wife its value, above and beyond the dollars I paid!

Tad · Oct 3, 2021

I really wonder how many people would in reality on finding an expensive vintage watch in a car boot sale inform the seller of the true value. I try and live an ethical life and believe in karma but also believe in the right to make a profit on anything I buy and sell. I’ve heard of some buyers returning a percentage of the profit back to a seller which in one way you would be pleased about but may also leave you feeling gutted that you sold an item that was grossly undervalued.

bags1971 · Oct 3, 2021

Thanks guys for the interesting thread

I don't know the original buyer my friend acted as the middleman I saw the watch in person inspected it put in a offer and they accepted

Pianotuna · Oct 3, 2021

There is a flip side to this honesty policy. All well and good to say to someone “look, you’re cheating yourself here, your £5 watch is in ordinary Nick and needs a proper service, but it’s worth 1,000-1,500 as is”, but I’m sure a few of us here have similarly pointed out (as I periodically have to do) that the item they just inherited is worth maybe 20% of the what they think it is, and the typical reaction to that is ….. :whipped:

*with a life observation here that, people who inherit stuff are usually the greediest when it comes to shifting said item on.

ckhaing · Oct 3, 2021

Pianotuna
.. the item they just inherited is worth maybe 20% of the what they think ....

Any stainless steel speedmaster is worth less than $1,000.

wait, what year it is now? president is not nixon?

Servius · Oct 3, 2021

Interesting thread. To me, everything comes down to the provenance : if direct, I’ll play fair, if reseller, no mercy.

Last year I bought an old Leica M from a guy (classified ad), inherited from his grandfather. During the discussion, we end to talk jewellery and watches, and he start to tell me that he found an old Rolex coming from this same inheritance…

He’s coming back in the living room saying it’s an old steel Rolex, holding in his hands a white gold 1802 with the-God-damn-bracelet.

Asked him how much he wanted for it. He doesn’t want to sell it, but for 3k he might think about it. Asked him with a smile if he didn’t found the watch a bit heavy for steel. Had to explain the full story as he didn’t seem to quite understand what was going on. To me it’s kind of a Grail watch, so I was pretty excited about it.

Few weeks later, texted him about the watch to get some news if he decided to sell it or whatever, he never replied. Paid the Leica full price, 6 months later it needed a service (ok, caveat emptor).

Sometimes I have second thoughts about this story, and makes me wondering if it should change my principles about all this 😀

Pianotuna · Oct 3, 2021

ckhaing
Any stainless steel speedmaster is worth less than $1,000.

wait, what year it is now? president is not nixon?

Lol ££££ not $.
We’re assuming that an Omega anything being sold in a car boot sale is unserviced and while tidy, not immaculately presented.

MikiJ · Oct 3, 2021

bout 10 years ago I traded for a '69 Speedmaster with a beautiful tropical dial and a flawless DoN natural blue bezel. It also came with a 1171 bracelet w/633 ends. I sold the bracelet for $300.US so I had a total of $2,300. plus another $100. in a fitted strap. I had $2,600.US invested in the SMP300 I traded off so I was in the Speedmaster right, except I had no idea of what the Speedmaster was or could be worth. I was afraid to wear it for fear of damaging the bezel. I always had the hots for a 3575.20 Speedmaster and I found a complete set for $3,500.US. I posted pictures of my '69 and a couple of members expressed interest. I contacted PitPro and asked for $3,500. He agreed to my asking price. After asking for the serial number he went out of his way to explain it was in the range for tropical dials and the bezel was what I thought it was, unusual and perfect. He just wanted to make sure I had some idea of what I was selling, but I wanted a different watch plus I really didn't know what I was selling at that time but not because an honest member didn't try to educate me. I included the strap because I thought so highly of John's efforts. He in fact bought my watch and maybe we can ask him to post a picture and you'll easily see what I sold 🙁

£5 Speedmaster

MtV

Danwales

JwRosenthal

MtV

Donn Chambers

Mouse_at_Large

JwRosenthal

rob#1

pdxleaf

studeb

JwRosenthal

Pianotuna

Syzygy

Tad

bags1971

Pianotuna

ckhaing

Servius

Pianotuna

MikiJ

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