The is the center wheel. It is the first wheel after the mainspring barrel in the transmission of power, and it rotates once per hour. The cannon pinion is attached to this wheel, and the minute hand is pressed onto the cannon pinion.

 

Ok, thanks. Does it look like it has some kind of flaw because too little lubrication and could it explain the malfunction?

 

The photo isn't of great quality, but there appears to be some wear in the location of the red arrow - this is where the wheel goes through the main plate of the movement, and is a common spot for wear on this wheel. How old was the watch?

 

Sorry, that was the best my iPhone could do. The watch was bought new in 2016. Worn in rotation with four watches. It propably was one of the first Speedmaster pros with long reference number and big exhibition box. Bracelet ref. is 1958/957 with screws and serial number starts with 873189...

 

So just an update...when this thread was started I searched for possible issues on the 3861 and found none that Omega had published. That has changed, and it appears there is an issue that Omega is seeing with the 3861 movements, and it's related to the center wheel. Basically it is showing some discoloration/debris in the places where the wheel goes through the main plate of the movement, and where it goes through the main bridge. In some cases the wheel shows premature wear.

They have stated that this can lead to weak balance amplitude, and it may also cause the movement to stop prematurely. They don't identify a specific issue, but say that all watches that have this problem will need a full service, and if there are any signs of wear on the center wheel, the wheel should be replaced. They also note that a "generous" amount of oil should be applied at these locations, noting that 6-8 drops of HP1300 should be used.

Of note, in the photos they have shown (sorry can't reproduce them here) they show that this center wheel goes through a bushing, which is a different situation than all other previous versions of this movement. In the past, the wheels have ridden in a simple hole that has been made in the softer brass plate, but the bushing in this 3861 appears to be a bronze bushing that would be a harder material, so my educated guess is that with this change in the material that the wheel rides in, a change of lubrication quantity was required and not done.

No indication how many 3861's this happens to, but usually they don't put something out like this unless they have had a few with problems. So if you notice anything with the watch, such as a short power reserve, get it in for warranty service so it can be corrected.

Cheers, Al

 

Wow - what a great write up. Thanks Al.

I assume this is what has happened to mine and to the gold one that had similar issues back at the end of last year.

Cheers,
Steve

 

To quote Oprah: "You get a free service, you get a free service and you get free service".

 

Archer thanks for detailed information! From your understanding, do you believe this is something that adding the extra lubricant solves, or just delays the issues?
My concern is, do you believe this is a design flaw, that is bound to happen to all 3861’s, or that by only adding extra lubricant in the production process makes it right for good?

thank you!

 

Nothing to do with this thread but, was there ever a discussion/thread, something like 1861/1863 or the previous movements vs 3861 of some sort?
It would be an interesting read. Can't seem to find anything but, maybe I'm not searching titles properly!?

 

To some extent, it’s like comparing apples to oranges. While the 1861 and 1863 movements are essentially similar to their predecessors - calibers 861 and 321 - the 3861 is a completely new movement incorporating Omega’s co-axial escapement and METAS master chronometer certification. The 3861 uses the Lemania 1873 as its base just like the 1861. And like the 1861, the 3861 is a hand-wound movement that beats at 21,600 BPH. The 3861 differs from the 1861 in the following ways:

• Jewels: 26 (18 in the 1861)
• Technology: Co-Axial escapement, resistant to magnetic fields to 15,000 gauss, hacking seconds, free-sprung balance with silicon balance spring (Si14).
• Power reserve: 50 hours (48 hours in the 1861)
• Certification: METAS Master Chronometer

 

This "6-8 drops of HP1300 should be used" from Archer's post issue is new to me...and to others I presume.
I was wondering whether previous movements had encountered similar or different issues after production.

 

Have a look here...

https://omegaforums.net/threads/3861-initial-thoughts.98944/

 

I can only go by what was written, so at this time no mention of ant new or different parts required, just some additional lubrication.

Cheers, Al

 

sounds like a new redesigned part is needed. Additional lubrication will thin over time. presumably those with lower edition number likely have this issue (did they have a different redesigned part for the higher numbered and presumably later releases - omega will know what they put in each of the individual release.)

 

There is no redesigned part...

 

This suggests that the 3861 movement likley requires lubrication significantly more frequently than prior movements for the speedy or the movement is at risk of failure of the identified part. Is that a fair assessment of the 3861 movement?

 

No, it suggests that this one spot requires more lubrication than it did in previous designs.

 

Ah. Thanks and my appologies. Your point is that more lubrication is needed on that one particular part, but more frequent lubrication is not required on that part if the part got the proper amount of lubrication in the first place?

 

Just to clarify because I don’t post here practically at all, I’m looking at this movement vs the prior movements and this line of posts caused me a little concern. No one wants to spend a bunch of money on a watch only to find out that they have to have it serviced more frequently or a certain part might fail. That’s what prompted my question and particularly of Archer becasue I read and apprecate his posts.

 

In the end this is a new movement. Nothing in the various things that have been done here haven't been done before in other movements, but sometimes the sum of those changes can create issues. There are jo guarantees, and movements go through updates all the time for issues that crop up, and that applies to any brand. Omega is still updating movements that haven't been made in decades to address things that crop up...

There are no guarantees with a new movement, no matter who the maker is. Look at the date issue happening on the Tudor GMT watches.

If you want to go with a more proven movements, the 1861 would be it. If you are willing to live with some risk, then the 2861 might be your choice. But there are no regulations requiring a certain longevity from a watch movement, so although companies do some testing before they are released, the watch buying public largely ends up being the beta testers...

Cheers, Al