321 Movement, changes to Omega service policy?

pdxleaf · Nov 18, 2021

tyrantlizardrex
Absolutely this.

The echo chamber of forums, instagram, and some blogs is not the reality of watch ownership for most customers.

And I think this thread possibly illustrates that perfectly. 😗

Not disagreeing with your comment about the echo chamber. But I suggest there is more to this, which is the marketplace of auctions, ebay, chrono24 and the like. Every person who has ever watched Antique Roadshow knows that an original old chair is worth more than a refinished old chair. It's not only our insular community that fancies these old relic watches. I think there is a wider audience that understands and values the difference between historical and unique vintage pieces and old junk.

Omegafanman · Nov 18, 2021

pdxleaf
Not disagreeing with your comment about the echo chamber. But I suggest there is more to this, which is the marketplace of auctions, ebay, chrono24 and the like. Every person who has ever watched Antique Roadshow knows that an original old chair is worth more than a refinished old chair. It's not only our insular community that fancies these old relic watches. I think there is a wider audience that understands and values the difference between historical and unique vintage pieces and old junk.

It is a strong point .... somone should suggest they look at modern vintage look homage pieces to pick up on the trend... I think that might fly :0)

Omegafanman · Nov 18, 2021

Archer
I'm sure Omega, at least to some extent, believes they do this now. When Omega does a service, the #1 thing they want to make sure of, is that the watch doesn't come back in the next 2 years - everything else is secondary to them.

The number of people who want crowns that no longer seal, pushers that no longer seal, old ratty looking hands, and all the other things vintage collectors value is incredibly small. I don't think the demand is really there for them to change what they are doing now - people still buy their new watches despite their lack of respect for vintage, and their shop at Bienne stays busy, despite their lack of respect for vintage, so why should they change?

100% they do not need to change / why should they change.... but then why put road blocks in the way of small business which can and will cater for the niche market plus will help train up new talented watchmakers to support that niche local market.
Yes it is the corporate juggernaut doing the big business thing..... but no harm in trying to knock some hats off as you go into the Police van...

M'Bob · Nov 18, 2021

Archer
I'm not Omega and I don't speak for them clearly, however there's a business decision to be made, and one can only assume that after weighing the costs against the benefit of goodwill, it's simply not worth it to them. I'm sure if they thought it was worth it, they would do it.

No argument there.

Nonetheless, I think the company is being short-sighted and not appreciating the trickle-down effect by not giving people like you full access to all parts.

I have a friend, a busy researcher, who wanted a flat-lug Speedmaster, so I lined him up a decent Ed White that he was thrilled with.

Recently, he contacted me about a service. He asked me if there was anyone local that could service this. I said there is a certified Omega watchmaker, but I cautioned him that he may not have access to all parts potentially needed. I told him what was involved if those unobtainable parts were required, and he said, screw it, I’ll put it in the drawer for now and just wear my Apple Watch. A satisfied customer? Someone likely to stay with, and talk up the brand to his buddies?

Archer · Nov 18, 2021

M'Bob
No argument there.

Nonetheless, I think the company is being short-sighted and not appreciating the trickle-down effect by not giving people like you full access to all parts.

I have a friend, a busy researcher, who wanted a flat-lug Speedmaster, so I lined him up a decent Ed White that he was thrilled with.

Recently, he contacted me about a service. He asked me if there was anyone local that could service this. I said there is a certified Omega watchmaker, but I cautioned him that he may not have access to all parts potentially needed. I told him what was involved if those unobtainable parts were required, and he said, screw it, I’ll put it in the drawer for now and just wear my Apple Watch. A satisfied customer? Someone likely to stay with, and talk up the brand to his buddies?

Again, I don't disagree with the point that it would be nice to have access to all these parts. If that is short sighted on Omega's part or not I can't say. One would assume that they have weighed the situation and have come up with a plan - based on how things are being done recently the changes they are making are not being done at random. I'm quite sure they have an end goal, and it doesn't really involve people like me. I've said several times that changes are happening that will have big impacts in the vintage world...

But on your friend, to not even try to get the watch serviced (if I understand your story correctly) is a strange thing indeed. It doesn't appear that he was terribly committed to the watch in the first place.

tyrantlizardrex · Nov 18, 2021

pdxleaf
Not disagreeing with your comment about the echo chamber. But I suggest there is more to this, which is the marketplace of auctions, ebay, chrono24 and the like. Every person who has ever watched Antique Roadshow knows that an original old chair is worth more than a refinished old chair. It's not only our insular community that fancies these old relic watches. I think there is a wider audience that understands and values the difference between historical and unique vintage pieces and old junk.

So we jump to investments.

And by extension, the “it’s not fair that Omega won’t do what I want in the way I want, don’t they know how valuable my watch is” conversation.

They know, they’re enjoying the rising tide, they’re still not going to change their business to accommodate the often maniacal demands of collectors.

“Don’t make it water/dust resistant, you’ll ruin the value!” ::facepalm1::

pdxleaf · Nov 18, 2021

tyrantlizardrex
So we jump to investments.

And by extension, the “it’s not fair that Omega won’t do what I want in the way I want, don’t they know how valuable my watch is” conversation.

They know, they’re enjoying the rising tide, they’re still not going to change their business to accommodate the often maniacal demands of collectors.

“Don’t make it water/dust resistant, you’ll ruin the value!”

I am suggesting that the value of the older vintage watch (chair, car, whatever) is in its uniqueness and rarity as it ages. The old saying that it is only original once applies to watches just as it does to cars. It's not simply that it is worth more money, as many older unique and limited watches are not worth much money.

At the same time, I am not saying that a person must choose originality over functionality. That's a personal choice and both are valid. I do think that there is a wider audience that appreciates vintage and do so for lots of reasons, some good, some not so good. I also think/hope that Omega respects the vintage enthusiast more than is suggested in this thread, but I recognize that I might not be realistic.

Cheers.

tyrantlizardrex · Nov 18, 2021

I’m unsure what that has to do with Omega not allowing service centres to work on certain watches.

pdxleaf · Nov 18, 2021

tyrantlizardrex
I’m unsure what that has to do with Omega not allowing service centres to work on certain watches.

Thread drift? 😉 i think it started with Omega's motivation and whether they valued heritage pieces.

Just fun talking watches. 😀

Marcello130 · Nov 19, 2021

I had mine recently serviced by an independent dealer certified by Omega. Was very happy with it.

M'Bob · Nov 19, 2021

.

Marcello130
I had mine recently serviced by an independent dealer certified by Omega. Was very happy with it.

We’re there many parts that needed replacement?

Claven2 · Nov 19, 2021

gbesq
Omega souinding like Rolex. Not a good thing. But at least Omega hasn't gotten to the point where it refuses to service its vintage watches and suggests that you buy a new one a la Rolex.

Fwiw, Rolex serviced my 1966 datejust last year. No sweat. I think you need to go back to bubblebacks and the like before they won't do the work.

Omegafanman · Nov 19, 2021

M'Bob
.

We’re there many parts that needed replacement?

I will cross check with a UK service centre next week.

Claven2 · Nov 21, 2021

dennisthemenace
Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the so called technicians working at the service centres if they can't work on what a lot of watchmakers say is one of the least complicated chrono movements out there.

At large manufacture service centres in particular (Rolex, Omega, etc.), they are trained to work repetitively on a small number of movements. Often a particular movement will have its own specialists that don't work on other movements much, if ever. They can do this because they only see one brand, and they see it in big volumes.

It is very likely that many watchmakers working at Omega do amazing work on, say, and 1861 chrono movement, without ever having laid a screwdriver to a 321 movement.

A good friend of mine runs a large independent watchmaker shop. He recently hired a former Rolex master watchmaker. Great guy with loads of experience, but he asks for advice and help all the time on swatch or other non-Rolex Swiss stuff, because he doesn't have the oil chart for a particular movement or isn't familiar with some aspect of it. But give him a Daytona, and he can blaze through it in no time and regulate it to knock your socks off. Go figure.

Archer · Nov 21, 2021

Claven2
At large manufacture service centres in particular (Rolex, Omega, etc.), they are trained to work repetitively on a small number of movements. Often a particular movement will have its own specialists that don't work on other movements much, if ever. They can do this because they only see one brand, and they see it in big volumes.

If you go to say the Swatch service centre in NJ, and go into the room with all the watchmakers, it is divided into 2 sections. The watchmakers work on movements from a specific range in the Swatch group hierarchy, so on one side a group will work on watches from Longines down the brands, and on the other side watchmakers will work on watches from Omega up the brands.

So the guys working on Omega may service other brands as well. So one could go from an Omega, to a Breguet, to a Blancpain, to a GO, etc. So the guy that can’t apparently work on a 321, may work on the version of the same movement used by Breguet.

Rolex is an entity of it’s own, so you can’t really compare them to Omega. Most of the watches that Rolex makes use essentially the same movement, so there’s a lot less variation there than there would be working at a Swatch service centre.

Omegafanman · Nov 25, 2021

Does anyone have the current category four list and can they advise when it was issued or updated?
I now think it includes some 30mm - so military covered as well?

I guess in the UK we have a habit of following / actioning rules while others take a more pragmatic approach.
I do think (UK bias) something has changed - either new rules / list issued and or current rules being enforced more strongly by Omega. I also think it will be a crying shame if a larger professional outfit like STS is prevented from working on many vintage Omega pieces for a lot of reasons - not least because we need to be growing a good set of UK watch makers for the future. STS have also always been very strong Omega advocates.
They looks after many other brands so I am sure they will do well whatever.

Lastly regarding the vintage market we are probably only 3-4 generations in. How many ‘my grandfathers / fathers’ watch posts do we already see. Mechanical time pieces do have a deeper meaning for people and I think that link should be encouraged and romanticised a bit and will do no harm for sales. An inability to properly service that growing market may damage the perception that an expensive luxury watch is there to be passed on down the generations and might burst that bubble ;0). I hope the accountancy ‘people in suits’ do not throw the baby out with the bath water.....

Archer · Nov 25, 2021

Omegafanman
Does anyone have the current category four list and can they advise when it was issued or updated?
I now think it includes some 30mm - so military covered as well?

The latest version of Work Instruction 31 on the Omega Extranet was released in January of 2021. The only change made then was adding Cal. 1441 and 1445 to the movement exchange list (quartz).

If by 30 mm you mean the 30T2 series movements (Cal. 260 through the 280's) they have been on the Bienne only list for a very long time. Just went back through the some of the older versions I have of WI31, and the oldest one I can find quickly is from 2010 and these calibers were already on the list, and I'm sure had been there for some time before that.

Omegafanman · Nov 25, 2021

Archer
The latest version of Work Instruction 31 on the Omega Extranet was released in January of 2021. The only change made then was adding Cal. 1441 and 1445 to the movement exchange list (quartz).

If by 30 mm you mean the 30T2 series movements (Cal. 260 through the 280's) they have been on the Bienne only list for a very long time. Just went back through the some of the older versions I have of WI31, and the oldest one I can find quickly is from 2010 and these calibers were already on the list, and I'm sure had been there for some time before that.

Thanks - I think it sounds like interpretation and or enforcement has changed. Hopefully things settle back to the status quo in my locale.

321 Movement, changes to Omega service policy?

pdxleaf

Omegafanman

Omegafanman

M'Bob

Archer

tyrantlizardrex

pdxleaf

tyrantlizardrex

pdxleaf

Marcello130

M'Bob

Claven2

Omegafanman

Claven2

Archer

Omegafanman

Archer

Omegafanman

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