Hello all,

I want to preface this post with I have looked at the fake vintage stickied post (85 pages...oy vey). however there isn't much about the Art Collection series.

The Watch in Question
I recently purchased a supposed 1986 Paul Talman Art Collection (32mm, black dial, no-date) for $288 on eBay. I was a little skeptical of the legitimacy, as the caseback art was "off" (pattern inverted, compared to the only image I've seen of this reference here at the top left of this image: https://omegaforums.net/attachments/img_3258-jpg.344679/). However, for the price, even if it's fake, it's fine by me as it has that great 80s vibe.

My Research/Investigation Online

The only shred of information I can really find on this piece is from this thread (thank you, tyrantlizardrex, for the uploaded pics) : https://omegaforums.net/threads/question-about-1987-max-bill-quartz.53088/

I'm not sure why the 1986 Paul Talman lacks the extra set of band retention screws, or the numbering engraving/etc along the periphery of the caseback. The rest of the pieces in the series have these things.

I scoured the Omega site and only found a few reference numbers for the Art Collection:
Reference | Year | Case | Size | Case Material | Dial | Date | Bracelet | Caliber | Notes
BC 695.0421 | 1986-1990 | 22mm | 18k white gold | Bright black | No | Satin | 1455 | International collection
BC 195.0430 | 1986 | 18k white gold | Matte black w/solid gold hands | No | Leather | 1434
YR 196.0430 | 1986 | Ceramic | Bright black or bright white | Yes | Leather 1436
YR 595.0420 | 1986 | Ceramic | Bright black or bright white | No | Leather | 1455
YR 196.0440 | 1986 | Ceramic | Bright black or bright white | Yes | Leather | 1433

Physical Disassembly/Inspection of the Watch

I took my watch apart and found an ETA 255.441 in it (date complication); this is the Omega 1436 equivalent. My dial has no date window, but I know movement replacements are common in older watches. I assume a 1455 would be the original movement for a typical no-date Art Collection?

The leather band looks legitimate, as well as the dial. The caseback is where it gets interesting.

As previously mentioned, the art pattern of the caseback seems inverted. Also, on the inside there is an Omega engraving (I know the fake thread mentioned it'd NEVER be on the outside) and the following reference numbers: 196.0.340 and 596.0.340. However, on the Omega site, I see no evidence of such numbers.

Attached are pics I took of the piece.

Lingering Questions

I'm familiar with the Art Collection series in general, however the 1986 Paul Talman piece is throwing me for a loop, as this seems to be the one variant I can't find other pieces of online, nor any information. No reference numbers. Nothing.

Did this piece ever make it to production? If so, did the art vary in design from what's in the picture?
What is the reference number for this variant in the mini/midi/maxi forms?
What is your opinion of my piece - fake or frankenstein?

Thanks in advance. Hopefully my findings help somebody.

 

Few things - first there's not a lot of information on the Omega Extranet (where people like me look up parts) for this series. But looking at the case numbers 1960342 and 5960342, both call out a dial that has a date window at 6, and I don't see a date on your watch in the photos above, so for me that is an immediate red flag.

Second, typically Omega quartz movements would have the Omega name and caliber designation somewhere on the movement. If not on the base plate, it would be on the coil cover, or sometimes on the circuit, and here is an example of a Cal. 1438 so you can see what I'm referring to - in this case it's printed on the circuit:



The circuit is also black, rather than blue, and I don't recall seeing a blue circuit on an Omega quartz movement before, so the movement is another red flag. In addition to help confirm this is not a correct movement, in the chart you posted above, where it shows the watches without date, the movements do not use a date, and here we have what appears to be a no date version of the watch, using a movement with a date - Omega doesn't do this generally.

So for me, this is at best a put together watch from what I see.

Cheers, Al

 

Hi Al,

Thanks for clarifying the case numbers I provided and the corresponding dial for them.

As I mentioned in my original post, I acknowledge my movement is not an authentic/Omega movement - it's definitely an ETA 255.441. I did find it weird it had the date complication but no window on the dial., but since it's not original, nothing surprises me at that point.

So the caseback engravings check out then, in terms of legitimacy? The watch looks to be a frankenstein?

Do you happen to have any leads/insight on the Talman artwork on the caseback? That's the only/biggest red flag to me. I can't find any pictures of another one other than posted above. The inverted color pattern is driving me nuts!

I appreciate your assistance.

 

It's a legit case number, but clearly not the right dial for the case. I don't have any other information on this one...

 

Ok thanks, Al. I'll keep an eye out for a 1436 movement and a black dial with a date window. I'll try to put this old gal back to her original specs.