1969 Seamaster 120 Conundrum - To mix or not to mix

masteroftime · Apr 19, 2022

A little while back I caught the Seamaster 120 bug and really wanted a 166.027. However, these have been pretty hot the past few years and couldn't find a really nice one in my price range. About 8-10 months ago, I came across an ebay listing for a nice looking 166.027 with its original 1169 bracelet, but It need a service and had no bezel. I might have been foolish and totally recognized the bezels are almost impossible to find on their own, but I made an offer and bought the watch. I paid about $700 or $750 and figured that the bracelet alone was worth 400-500.

Well, the watch was actually pretty nice. It looked all original and the dial and hands were pretty pristine. The only major con was that the caseback was personalized, but I didn't care too much. Endeavoring to fix it, I came across the fake case kits online and contemplated trying to get my hands on one of the bezels. I ended up going for it, and figured in the meantime it would at least make the watch wearable.

And here is the fake bezel:

Obviously not ideal, but all in all it would make it an $800 SM120 that is wearable. However, a few months ago I was on ebay and saw another SM120 165.027 that looked a little rough. On the left side of the case, a previous owner had inscribed their name crudely, but it had a nice looking bezel. I made an offer and snagged it for $803.99 with the intention of stealing the bezel off it. Well the watch cleaned up rather nicely, the dial has patina, but it actually looks great on the wrist.

So, for a grand total of $1,603.99, I was able to get two SM120's after almost pulling the trigger on an okay one for $1,800. I'd love to hear some thoughts about whether you all think I did well, or if this has been a crazy stupid endeavor.

Now, I want to make moves and clean up the 166.027, but I'm not sure I have the heart to take the bezel from the 165.027 and "ruin" it. It isn't the nicest example, but it is original and wearable. But, I also have the opportunity to make one really nice original 166.027 or an everyday watch with the fake/am bezel.

I've held off on the project and keep going back and forth, but I would love to hear the thoughts of others. I appreciate your time and any insight you all may have.

JwRosenthal · Apr 19, 2022

Oooo, this is a tough debate. Some feel parts is parts and as long as they are all factory parts, no harm. But others would argue that if the parts didn’t come on that watch from the factory, then it’s a franken.
I fall somewhere in the middle. If Swapping a good bezel from a poor watch into a good watch would give you a great watch, then go for it. If you are going to start mixing & matching movements and cases- then we start getting into cobbled watches …some could argue just swapping a bezel yields a cobbled watch…ugh, the debates

cristos71 · Apr 19, 2022

I'd make the best possible with the addition of the bezel to the good one and sell the rest.

You'll be enjoying the good one a long time after you've completely forgotten about the other.

masteroftime · Apr 19, 2022

JwRosenthal
Oooo, this is a tough debate. Some feel parts is parts and as long as they are all factory parts, no harm. But others would argue that if the parts didn’t come on that watch from the factory, then it’s a franken.
I fall somewhere in the middle. If Swapping a good bezel from a poor watch into a good watch would give you a great watch, then go for it. If you are going to start mixing & matching movements and cases- then we start getting into cobbled watches …some could argue just swapping a bezel yields a cobbled watch…ugh, the debates

Thank you! That definitely seems fair. I also gravitate towards the middle as long as the match up makes sense and would be "correct" for the model ref. It is nice knowing that a watch you own is all original and unmolested, but I generally believe in ethical and tasteful restoration when necessary.

Do you think I should keep one, or both?

Also, if you don't mind me asking, where do you lean on the AM bezels? I am always transparent about non-oem parts. It seems like with some vintage divers that using AM bezels are more prevalent. Considering these bezels are made of "unobtanium," does it make sense to keep it and conserve the original?

masteroftime · Apr 19, 2022

cristos71
I'd make the best possible with the addition of the bezel to the good one and sell the rest.

You'll be enjoying the good one a long time after you've completely forgotten about the other.

I appreciate that! That was definitely the original plan. I got caught up in the desire to want to "keep them all"

jantjewgm · Apr 19, 2022

Definitely add the good bezel!

sonicosa · Apr 19, 2022

I've seen at least one user refer to this as "watch optimization" (and say that they hate it). I am all for it in theory, but often fine once I have the watches in hand, I don't actually want to switch the parts around.

However, I'm about to attempt a project very similar to what you're considering, and will post more once I have the second "donor" watch in hand.

JwRosenthal · Apr 19, 2022

You can keep them both- many of us have multiples of some watches, but usually only one of them gets worn.

As for the repro bezel, this is a sticky wicket. We had a member here several years ago that had access to a machining facility and offered to make a run of replacement bezels for the 120- he got crucified. I PM’d with him privately as ge licked his wounds. These watches were orphaned by Omega decades ago. The parts they have are just movement and hands- that’s it. I personally see no problem using an aftermarket bezel if a factory replacement is not available (which it’s not) or scarce on the used market (which they are).
Of course if you plan to sell the second one with the replacement aftermarket bezel, make sure you clearly disclose that. Your conscience will be clear- what that guys chooses to disclose when he eventually sells it is another matter.

sonicosa · Apr 19, 2022

JwRosenthal
We had a member here several years ago that had access to a machining facility and offered to make a run of replacement bezels for the 120- he got crucified.

I think I missed this. It's sometime surprising to me what gets strong pushback and what doesn't. For example, many users seem to laud the creation of repro bezel inserts for the early SM 300 models.

Maybe the difference is that the bezel itself is still original in the case of the SM 300 and just the insert is being manufactured by a third party?

As for @masteroftime 's repro bezel - I have one of those as well, unfortunately. I got suckered by one of the fake kits when I first got into vintage Omega watches. Personally, I wouldn't put it on a genuine Omega watch, as it was created to deceive, and not created to honestly meet the need for a NLA part.

I actually don't mind how your 166.027 looks without the bezel, and if I had both watches, I'd be tempted to keep them both original and enjoy them as-is, as I also like the appearance of the 165.027 in it's current state as well.

Were you able to remove the name from the side of the the 165.027? I remember when that popped up for sale. I actually think I remember both of these.

pmontoyap · Apr 19, 2022

Have you tried fitting the repro bezel? They were made to look similar which doesn’t mean they have exactly the same dimensions. I would be surprised it it actually fits properly and rotates.

If it fits OK I wouldn’t mind using it as an aftermarket solution.

Dan S · Apr 19, 2022

I wonder if @Bill Sohne is willing to comment on this proposed "optimization". ::stirthepot::

sonicosa · Apr 19, 2022

Dan S
I wonder if @Bill Sohne is willing to comment on this proposed "optimization".

If memory serves, that's who I was referring to in my reply above. (Maybe "user" was too broad.)

Azveld · Apr 19, 2022

cannibalism... this behavior of last resort in the face of a shortage of resources.
I would certainly have applied it for the bezel, but not for the other parts (unless one of them was badly damaged). because I am also between the 2 poles "change everything/change nothing".
and I would have kept only the most beautiful to reduce the price of the operation.

Davidt · Apr 19, 2022

Personally I’d keep the 165.027 as that’s the rarest of the SM120’s and yours seems all original and has a attractive look (at least on the one picture you’ve posted). I’d then keep the 166.027 bezel-less, keeping an eye out over the next few years for a correct one.

This way, you’re still into these very cheaply, you have a nice complete one to wear and a nicer bezel-less project that you can wear a la Brando.

Davidt · Apr 19, 2022

Oh and I’d toss the fake bezel.

Azveld · Apr 19, 2022

we haven't talked about this solution yet: the inscriptions in the steel can be removed by laser welding and then polishing. to have seen results, we don't see anything at all, it's quite amazing.

Davidt · Apr 19, 2022

Can you post some more pictures of both watches?

masteroftime · Apr 19, 2022

JwRosenthal
You can keep them both...but usually only one of them gets worn.

Very true, lol. I appreciate your perspective regarding the repro bezel. I abhor fake parts like the SM120 "kits" but I find these bezels (if they can be properly differentiated) to be some of the few benefits as they can help keep these models complete. I don't abuse my watches, but I kind of like the idea of being able to minimize wear on the original bezel.

pmontoyap
Have you tried fitting the repro bezel?

I haven't, but I've seen someone else do it while they searched for an original bezel. I will try to fit it soon and confirm.

sonicosa
unfortunately. I got suckered by one of the fake kits when I first got into vintage Omega watches. Personally, I wouldn't put it on a genuine Omega watch, as it was created to deceive, and not created to honestly meet the need for a NLA part.

I totally understand this point, which was one of my big motivations for asking. The fake kits are a nightmare and I try to report them when I see them. I do wish there was someone out there making quality replacement parts that aren't meant to deceive.

sonicosa
Were you able to remove the name from the side of the the 165.027? I remember when that popped up for sale. I actually think I remember both of these.

I was honestly surprised, nobody beat me to either. The 166.027 sat on ebay for a few weeks and nobody was interested. To be honest, the name doesn't bother me because it isn't immediately apparent unless you're looking for it. If I keep the watch I do want to get it removed. I contemplated trying to get the side buffed down to remove it, but I'd rather do it right and get it laser welded.

masteroftime · Apr 19, 2022

Dan S
I wonder if @Bill Sohne is willing to comment on this proposed "optimization".

I don't mean to get people riled up, but I do appreciate opposing viewpoints. I've only been on OF a relatively short time, but I enjoy the conversations. 😉

Davidt
Personally I’d keep the 165.027 as that’s the rarest of the SM120’s and yours seems all original and has a attractive look (at least on the one picture you’ve posted). I’d then keep the 166.027 bezel-less, keeping an eye out over the next few years for a correct one.

Keeping both is very tempting and may just end up happening to the detriment of my watch purchasing fund. I mostly collect watches with date complications, but I do like the no date SM120.

Davidt
Can you post some more pictures of both watches?

Sure, I'll try to take more photos when I get back home.

Sa Calobra · Apr 20, 2022

+1 for @cristos71 's suggestion to go for 1 very clean version and sell the other. But this is purely personal preference 😀

1969 Seamaster 120 Conundrum - To mix or not to mix

masteroftime

JwRosenthal

cristos71

masteroftime

masteroftime

jantjewgm

sonicosa

JwRosenthal

sonicosa

pmontoyap

Dan S

sonicosa

Azveld

Davidt

Davidt

Azveld

Davidt

masteroftime

masteroftime

Sa Calobra

Similar threads

1969 Seamaster 168.023

1969 Seamaster Deville

First time posting in the Modern Omega Watch discussion with a conundrum...

To re-lume or not?

To clean or not to clean?

Vintage Seamaster De Ville, To Service or not?