1966 - Matte Black C-Cased Constellation - A Good Re-Dial?

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To be honest this is why I bought this watch, there was no risk for me and it was full of mysteries, the price was just right, and I'd say I got $100 of fun out of it already - the case of the white hands was a good one, from online photos they looked like detailed Seamaster/Speedmaster hands with lume in the middle, but up close they are just new-style baton hands painted white

I'll probably try to post dial photos in a month, the underside of the dial could shed some light to the mystery as well

Though I tested this theory on a dial that was previously deemed a re-dial, it's a cheap ladies de-ville I can work on myself, apart from a human-made manual carving that says "SI" - I can't see a way to tell, I'd expect the new coating to overflow etc. but I can't tell - so opening the watch wouldn't really prove it's not a re-dial either, it could only prove it's a re-dial - if that re-dialer carves his initials as well

 
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if a watch (around that age) dial had damages at some point and sent to omega, do they replace with a service dial or is there such thing as factory redial / intervention if service dial is not in stock?
 
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if a watch (around that age) dial had damages at some point and sent to omega, do they replace with a service dial or is there such thing as factory redial / intervention if service dial is not in stock?
Both is possible and as I learned from this forum it can be that they ask you for that or not.
 
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This recent tiny swiss made example from eBay looks identical to mine as well: https://www.ebay.com/itm/393585504998

Star too close to the Constellation, first n is thick, while second n is more leaner

Off topic, the price is also pretty good, I desperately need more gold brick bracelets as well (in this case a rare 1507/18), but I pass as I've exceeded my budget heavily lately - best to hold on for more rarer examples I guess

 
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So the story continues, but a warning, it will be long:

Bought some silver hands from Ofrei, minutes hand length was the same as this watch, but the hour hand turned out to be super long, wasted another $40

After the hands arrived, removed the original painted hands and dipped them in 25% ammonia by putting them in a jar, 25% ammonia is pretty extreme. The hands stayed in the jar for 2 days and by the looks of it, it was another wasted effort. I decided to remove the hands and try to remove the paint by light sanding with high grit - but removing the hands from ammonia wasn't going to be easy, since it immediately becomes airborne and even if you don't inhale, it hurts the eyes

Decided to make the sink drip, place a net underneath in case the seconds hand goes buoyant this net was going to capture it, opened the jar, placed it on the net inside the sink and left. Returned after an hour, the ammonia was gone and the minute hand and hour hand was inside the jar in water, yet the seconds hand was nowhere to be seen, the surface tension lifted it up, and instead of the net capturing it, it went through it like a needle. I went underneath the sink, removed the flex U part, no seconds hand came out ...

The sad part is, while I thought the ammonia didn't work, it actually worked by getting in between the metal and the paint, and it dislodged the paint like a film and I didn't notice it while things were inside the jar, as I was expecting it to dissolve the paint. So not a bad turnout, as the hour/minute hand is rare, while you can't buy a seconds hand directly I had a spare

Since our dog is ill, I'm staying with my parents to spend his last days together, told what happened to my mother since she helped me with ammonia (I had no experience, basically she did the pouring too). I had 0 hope as I went through it all, she wanted to try too and admittedly she's more handy than me. And turns out the seconds hand was stuck inside the sink before the drain and she managed to get it out. It wasn't even bent! Miracles like this is very common with my mother, one winter she lost her ring, we searched everywhere, and at the end of the winter, it was inside the last pile of snow that didn't melt, and we were living in an apartment back then, no one found it for months 😀

Here you can see the pristine seconds hand, and the white paint removed like a film:


The hour and minutes hand are silver as well, and there was no black paint underneath, which makes me believe these were the original hands, back when 561 movements were used, there were no thick baton hands either, only thin ones, these hands are thick silver. I believe this supports the watch not being a re-dial - the movement is also pristine, almost unused, the case is spotless - if it was a re-dial, I think it would've been a salvaged movement

This is the dial (the paper it's on is what Omega uses to store dials). Shiny parts raise a question mark, I consulted Archer, he said he'd need to see it in person but he also believed it could be a sign of re-attachment, seeing it in person would be needed



I have a newer 512+562 dial for comparison, entirely different dial. It has all different spots, they are all dark and dirty. Not supporting my case yet

I remembered this solid gold dial on eBay, same font style, same 50+562 marking, same era dial I assume - this one is solid gold, and it also has shiny spots, so I like to believe this was the approach for these dials:


Basically the dial above is 1:1 the same, the two "n"s have the same nuances

My theory is the owner getting the hands painted to increase contrast and for the time being, I want to believe this isn't a re-dial, and with the hands saved, it's almost 100% restored - even if it's a re-dial, it's a marvel, for example the dial above has a slightly thicker minute index near the date window, every other painted minute index is thin, mine also has the single thick painted minute index near the date window, I don't know whether re-dialers get details like this right

Hard to capture these nuances in photos, in person the thickness of the date minutes thick is clear, also the photo angle determines how close the star looks to the text, but I tried:
 
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An exactly same example surfaced

What's bizarre is that it also has the painted hands, similarly paint appears non-standard to Omega, as to my knowledge Omega doesn't paint the entire hands (the circles are unpainted)

I was going to end my quest and declare my watch original, yet, now I wonder if both are works of the same master redialsman

If not I depainted the most bizarre original hands C-Case's seen

https://www.instagram.com/p/CZiX_-UFs75/



Mine after "restoration":
 
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I checked the movement and the serial, it's an incredibly clean 561 with a serial dating it to 1966 - It's obviously been serviced, the new crystal isn't Omega marked, seals seem new, the strap is new and I suspect it's a replica Omega strap? It has 9800090 written on it, I suspect replica as it's my default setting - it's a nice thin strap, the buckle has "STAINLESS STEEL" laser engraved underneath and it's a polished buckle

The hands in my opinion are regular baton hands painted white, their geometry 1:1 matches baton hands, so that solves that mystery

I took a risk with this watch, the sale pictures/listing was honest, it was an estate find, they outlined everything they saw, mainly the crack at the edge of the aftermarket crystal

So up to this, everything points out to a very good re-dial, is it? The dial texture is grainy and the fonts are thin

The thing is, I don't have any of these early dials with the tiny "SWISS MADE" stamps - the 3rd photo is one of those, so in my opinion it matches that dial / typography / sizing

This looks a little like it might be a confetti dial...

If you look really, really close up with a high power loupe or a microscope, can you see little blobby dots of different colours, e.g. yellow and blue?

I did a blog post on confetti dials here, but I've never seen one on an Omega:
https://www.moonagewatches.com/post/confetti-dials-not-just-rolex

With Rolex at least, you get "black" ones and "brown" ones. You also get "brown" ones in other brands such as Longines and GP. If this Omega is a confetti dial it looks like it would be a "black" version, like you occasionally get in vintage 1600/1601/1603 Datejusts.
 
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This looks a little like it might be a confetti dial...

If you look really, really close up with a high power loupe or a microscope, can you see little blobby dots of different colours, e.g. yellow and blue?

I did a blog post on confetti dials here, but I've never seen one on an Omega:
https://www.moonagewatches.com/post/confetti-dials-not-just-rolex

With Rolex at least, you get "black" ones and "brown" ones. You also get "brown" ones in other brands such as Longines and GP. If this Omega is a confetti dial it looks like it would be a "black" version, like you occasionally get in vintage 1600/1601/1603 Datejusts.
This one specifically is not a confetti dial, it's grainy yet appeared very black

I did however checked a regular matte black C-Case dial and it's indeed red speckled like the close ups on your post
 
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This one specifically is not a confetti dial, it's grainy yet appeared very black

I did however checked a regular matte black C-Case dial and it's indeed red speckled like the close ups on your post
Interesting! The "grainy" texture is particularly characteristic of confetti dials, because the surface is composed of "splattered" blobs of coloured paint. I wonder if this dial could use the same technique for applying the paint, but just using all black paint.

However, I notice that the solid gold dial you show above is marked "SF" (with a star) on the back, presumably indicating Stern Freres. I can't see a manufacturer's mark on the photo of your matte black dial, but the number ("50 562" ?) is in the same style with a little star inbetween, and as you say, it has the same "shiny spots" and font. So I'm guessing it's also a Stern Freres dial. All the true confetti dials I've seen with manufacturer's marks have been made by Beyeler.

I'd love to see a closeup of one of the red speckled c-case matte black dials.
 
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I had a microscope lens I'll see if I can find it before I wrap the watch back up
 
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Interesting! The "grainy" texture is particularly characteristic of confetti dials, because the surface is composed of "splattered" blobs of coloured paint. I wonder if this dial could use the same technique for applying the paint, but just using all black paint.

However, I notice that the solid gold dial you show above is marked "SF" (with a star) on the back, presumably indicating Stern Freres. I can't see a manufacturer's mark on the photo of your matte black dial, but the number ("50 562" ?) is in the same style with a little star inbetween, and as you say, it has the same "shiny spots" and font. So I'm guessing it's also a Stern Freres dial. All the true confetti dials I've seen with manufacturer's marks have been made by Beyeler.

I'd love to see a closeup of one of the red speckled c-case matte black dials.


Best I could do for now - couldn't find the 200x lens, these are gilt dials, underside of the dial is black except the flux spaces, instead of any maker marks there is a serial number underneath

Since it's a gilt / reverse printed dial, I guess they could be different from the dials you seek? Any of them reverse printed?

(Actually I'm not 100% sure about the reverse print, but like 95% sure, no one contradicted it yet)
 
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Best I could do for now - couldn't find the 200x lens, these are gilt dials, underside of the dial is black except the flux spaces, instead of any maker marks there is a serial number underneath

Since it's a gilt / reverse printed dial, I guess they could be different from the dials you seek? Any of them reverse printed?

(Actually I'm not 100% sure about the reverse print, but like 95% sure, no one contradicted it yet)
That's certainly very different from the confetti dials. Superficially at least, the other one almost looked more like it. But of course the key character is the multicoloured speckles.