Hello everybody,

tomorrow I’m invited to have a look at a 1960 Omega Seamaster, no date, cal 552, ref 14700 SC 4. I was just sent a few pictures, among which I stumbled upon this picture of the movement:



I‘m now slightly sceptical regarding the serial number. I thought it would be 8 digits, starting with a 1, at least the other Seamasters with that reference I can find on Chrono / Ebay have that. Also, the first 2 digits are faded and slightly “off”, I find. Any thoughts from the experts?

If it helps, here are a few pictures of the watch:






Thanks everybody for the help - I’m curious what you’ll say.

 

Could it be 18,XXX,XXX but just faint? if so that is about right. If not then something is up, it may be a service movement or maybe something more sinister.

 

Looks like movement serial and caliber # weren't engraved in the regular factory production process. Were they engraved / stamped in at all or were they lasered?

This watch looks more familiar and correct to me:

 

Good point, that's probably what made me feel they were "off". Same with the calibre number, you're right. Still it seems weird to me to fake that movement, as it's not something very valuable and therefore, I thought, wasn't "worth it". Or maybe the watch was stolen at some point, who knows. Frustrating nonetheless.

 

Yeah. I thought the same... Why manipulating a cal. 552 movement? But I can only tell from my own experience, that I have never seen a movement like yours, which doesn't mean there might be a logical explanation, which some other members may easily clear up.

 

Doesn't bother me at all, simply an anomaly in the stamping process.

 

Sure?

 

Yeah, sure.

Do you have another thought?

 

I didn't even consider this possible thb - that'd be ideal, obviously. Other than that I have failed to find anything wrong with the watch (condition is debatable, of course) - unless anyone here happens to know something scary that I/we don't, I'll probably just inspect it thoroughly and talk to the guy a bit. If it feels right, I guess I'll just do it.

 

I assume I got my answer without even looking at the watch in person.

The seller had been very helpful and kind so far. In my last message, I confirmed the time and the adress he gave me and asked for the last name so I'd know which bell to ring. I also let him know that I'd bring a standard private purchase contract (nothing that would force him to provice a guarantee or the like, simply the usual and good practice when buying/selling a luxury watch). He responded negatively and denied all those safety measures - the adress was of a pharmacy, in front of which he wanted to meet and because he was allegedly scared of identity theft he didn't even agree to show his ID, let alone sign anything. That's all I needed to know to cancel the meeting, whatever the reason for that behaviour might be.

 

I've sent away people like you when i was selling my Sub, first the guy insisted on coming to my home and not to a watchmaker. Second guy brought up several versions of a contract "in good faith" and the third guy came to my door one day before we agreed on meeting up. So I've just swallowed my pride and listed it on eBay was gone in two days I got stellar feedback and 500€ more than asked locally.

All of them local buyers were sent away, and would have done the same with you regarding a 300-400€ watch I'd send you away the moment you'd ask of me to sign anything, I'd show ID but nothing more nothing less. You won't invade my home, raise suspicion over an item and regulate how the sale of MY item will go by your contract and expect me to comply because at the end of the day the seller makes the rules it's on you to either accept them or walk away.

 

Sure, which is why I did exactly that - walk away. And you say yourself: You'd show an ID - there's the major difference. I'm fine meeting somewhere else and can completely relate, but in that case I'd at least want to see an ID. I also offered to verify my identity beforehand - my job is very public and a lot of my information, including full name, picture, city of residence, etc. can be found online on official websites. To me it's the combination of things that raises a red flag here.

Also, might be different depending on the country / region, but I've been offered those private contracts regularly, both from buyers and sellers. Offering to bring a copy to a scheduled watch deal doesn't appear uncommon to me at all - I see them increasingly often from the sellers side, as they do legaly rule out returns/guarantee etc. Also, while I am grateful for the feedback, I don't really appreciate your "People like you"-comment - I've done exactly none of the mentioned things.

 

I live in Germany and Croatia - the private sale no returns no guarantee is understood as such and if no bill or receipt has been issued there is no need for a contract to be made to regulate that question... Not even the mantra seen on German eBay auctions that you see in the footer is needed to regulate it.
Croatia ? As long as it's not a car, apartment, plot of land or something other that has ownership papers attached to it and needs the government to be notified of the ownership change most if not all transactions of the private variety happen without a contract.
I use my name and surname as eBay username and if on Chrono24 my name is seen in the listing that's about it on the info the buyer needs. There is a variety of things that can be brought up into issue with a signed contract years down the road if you get a stubborn attorney and a stubborn or uninformed buyer one comma can make the difference between a non issue and a civil matter that could end up with payments or damages...
Why would i put anything into contract when I'm selling a vintage piece? To be held accountable 20 years later for something that happened with the watch 20 years before I've purchased it at a flea market in Trieste - I as a would be seller am not ready to vouch for the 60+ years on some pieces and their history if i didn't buy them off a shop or from the 1st owner. Can you and would you?
And I won't apologize for the "people like you" comment because in my years on selling vintage camera stuff on ebay and accumulating power seller status I've only came across two types of buyers the "informed buyer" and the "my money and my ego is worth more than the next guy buyer lets put it all in writing i need my self validation dose for the day" - and to be honest I gladly refunded sales minutes after payment received when the true faces of the buyers shown themselves. Not worth the hassle when there are 100s of other normal and informed buyers out there looking to get and enjoy the item without having their ego stroked.

 

But you expected a private seller to sign some sort of contract. That's unheard of in my neck of the woods, and from my experience with buyers on this very forum, it's not a common practice here either.
You're not some sort of lawyer by any chance?

 

Contracts?

For private sales?

What a funny place you must live in.

Around here a buyer turns up for a FTF with cash and says "How much was it again?"

"$1500 mate."

"Would you consider $1450?"

"$1480."

"No probs mate, (money/goods exchange hands) Seeya!".

 

As to the engraving on the original watch.
Back in the day it was done on multiple head pantographs.
If a piece was on the last tray of the run and a bit loose, or a burr was worn, or if it was loose in the head there was a tendency for the engraving to be less than optimal.
I don't think it's an issue.

 

If someone whipped up some sort of contract when buying a watch from me, I'd walk away. If a buyer insisted on meeting at my place to make the transaction, I'd walk away.

 

Yup.

so I’m selling a watch and a guy wants my home address... and my ID after I agreed to meet in a public place.

sounds like a great way to get robbed.

 

What’s with the showing your ID request. I’ve never heard of it. Then again, I haven’t bought an expensive watch really. Is there a price point that folks want to see ID in case the police come knocking after you post your new watch on Instagram?

 

I don't really know. It might be some personal preference or the inflated ego and the "im more important than you" mentality but can't pinpoint it exactly. I've had a guy from my country ask for escrow.com on an 300€ watch and had a guy come pick up 3 Luftwaffe Leica cameras, pay in cash and leave me a bottle of wine without even saying his name or asking for mine - we just knew each other by our forum nicknames...

Weird world we live in.