1941 Longines with military connection

DirtyDozen12 · Sep 2, 2022

I recently acquired a Longines ref. 4776 with an intriguing engraving on its case-back. The engraving consists of a capital letter preceding a five-digit number, and what appear to be initials below the number. Knowing that the watch was invoiced to Canada in 1941, a bit of research suggested that the capital letter and number are a Canadian Regimental number, which were introduced for the Canadian Active Service Force in 1940 (Source: Law).

Thanks to a great book by Clive M. Law entitled "Regimental Numbers of the Canadian Army, 1936 - 1960", I have been able to decode the letter/number further. The "H" that precedes the number, corresponds to Military District 10, which was essentially Western Ontario, Manitoba, and what is now called Nunavut. The letter indicates the region in which a person was recruited.

Within Military Districts, Units were given blocks of numbers that they could assign to new recruits. According to Law's book, "H 50635" falls within the block of numbers given to the "3rd Field Ambulance, RCAMC". RCAMC stands for Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps.

After spending a brief period of time with another great book by Gerald W. L. Nicholson entitled "Seventy Years of Service: A History of the Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps", it is evident that RCAMC Field Ambulances played a critical role in transporting injured troops to places such as General Hospitals and Advanced Dressing Stations during the Second World War. Though the 3rd Field Ambulance Unit was not mentioned within the context of the Second World War, it was mentioned as being "the last Canadian medical unit to be sent to Korea" in 1954. I hope to explore this further.

Here is the watch.

JasonF · Sep 2, 2022

Thanks for sharing, great info!

Radiumpassion · Sep 3, 2022

Great watch and detective work!

JohnLy · Sep 3, 2022

DirtyDozen12
I recently acquired a Longines ref. 4776 with an intriguing engraving on its case-back. The engraving consists of a capital letter preceding a five-digit number, and what appear to be initials below the number. Knowing that the watch was invoiced to Canada in 1941, a bit of research suggested that the capital letter and number are a Canadian Regimental number, which were introduced for the Canadian Active Service Force in 1940 (Source: Law).

Thanks to a great book by Clive M. Law entitled "Regimental Numbers of the Canadian Army, 1936 - 1960", I have been able to decode the letter/number further. The "H" that precedes the number, corresponds to Military District 10, which was essentially Western Ontario, Manitoba, and what is now called Nunavut. The letter indicates the region in which a person was recruited.

Within Military Districts, Units were given blocks of numbers that they could assign to new recruits. According to Law's book, "H 50635" falls within the block of numbers given to the "3rd Field Ambulance, RCAMC". RCAMC stands for Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps.

After spending a brief period of time with another great book by Gerald W. L. Nicholson entitled "Seventy Years of Service: A History of the Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps", it is evident that RCAMC Field Ambulances played a critical role in transporting injured troops to places such as General Hospitals and Advanced Dressing Stations during the Second World War. Though the 3rd Field Ambulance Unit was not mentioned within the context of the Second World War, it was mentioned as being "the last Canadian medical unit to be sent to Korea" in 1954. I hope to explore this further.

Here is the watch.

Great research in bringing to life just part of the history some watches have.

BlueHands · Sep 3, 2022

This is great - story and watch. Were watches given to Canada also invoiced to Longines-Wittnauer?

DirtyDozen12 · Sep 3, 2022

@JasonF @Radiumpassion @JohnLy and @BlueHands Thanks for your feedback.

Yes, Longines watches that were bound for the Canadian market were invoiced to Longines-Wittnauer (at least during this time period). When I was in Saint-Imier, I was lucky to see a page from Longines' registers that indicated an original invoice to Wittnauer with an additional mention of "Stock Canada". I do not know if all watches bound for Canada were recorded this way in Longines' archive.

BlueHands · Sep 3, 2022

That`s interesting, thanks a lot for your info. Some time ago I have been beginning to write down Longines`agents and the associated countries. I will include this in my notes.

LesXL · Sep 3, 2022

Very nice watch and story! Thanks for sharing

DirtyDozen12 · Sep 3, 2022

LesXL
Very nice watch and story! Thanks for sharing

My pleasure!

Mephisto · Sep 3, 2022

Thanks for the write-up! It's an amazing piece of history(as a as a Seoulite myself, intrigued to know it could perhaps have passed through the area long ago; though more likely not, given the date).
Do you know what the 139 on the underside of the lugs stands for? Case maker?

Donko1100 · Sep 3, 2022

139 are the last digits of the case register serial number. Longines mark them like that until the mid-40s, but that's what the more familiar here will say. I've always loved this way of marking... I've only seen anything like it on a late 30s Ebel I had a while back.

Kudos to the OP for a lovely watch in its own right, and thanks for the story!

DirtyDozen12 · Sep 4, 2022

@Mephisto and @Donko1100 Thanks for your responses!

Firstly, I do not know who made Longines' early waterproof cases. Secondly, the number on the underside of the lug is an individual case number within an order, as far as I know. The order number is the five-digit number on the outside of the case-back. On screw-back cases, the individual case number was stamped on both the case-back and the underside of a lug. I have seen a similar practice on the cases of a few other watch brands. Here is a Tissot that I own.

Syrte · Oct 3, 2022

Very interesting, you should post this on MWR, I’m
Sure the membership will be very interested and there are a few Canadians there and’others with some interest and knowledge about the various watches the Canadian military used.

DirtyDozen12 · Oct 3, 2022

Syrte
Very interesting, you should post this on MWR, I’m
Sure the membership will be very interested and there are a few Canadians there and’others with some interest and knowledge about the various watches the Canadian military used.

Thanks for the feedback and suggestion. I will try to do that in the near future.

TorontoTim · Dec 30, 2024

While I know it's been a couple of years since your post, I figured I might add-on to this a bit. I have what appears to be the same Longines, and while it does not have military-specific engraving, I can say with certainty the watch came out of Manitoba (Winnipeg).

SpeedyPhill · Dec 31, 2024

Gotta love Longines... it deserves far more attention within SwatchGroup

DirtyDozen12 · Dec 31, 2024

TorontoTim
While I know it's been a couple of years since your post, I figured I might add-on to this a bit. I have what appears to be the same Longines, and while it does not have military-specific engraving, I can say with certainty the watch came out of Manitoba (Winnipeg).

Thanks for sharing these photos. The two watches are certainly similar but with a few interesting differences. The dial on your watch is somewhat uncommon, with serifs on the 1s. Also, the case-back markings on your example include a 4-digit order number, rather than a 5-digit order number. As a side note, all three hands and the crown have been replaced. I wonder if you can say more about the watch coming out of Winnipeg?

TorontoTim · Dec 31, 2024

DirtyDozen12
Thanks for sharing these photos. The two watches are certainly similar but with a few interesting differences. The dial on your watch is somewhat uncommon, with serifs on the 1s. Also, the case-back markings on your example include a 4-digit order number, rather than a 5-digit order number. As a side note, all three hands and the crown have been replaced. I wonder if you can say more about the watch coming out of Winnipeg?

It's just part of a decades-long collection of watches I have that originated through my family's antique business in Winnipeg. I have no background info on it - I expect we picked it up 20-30 years ago.

Out of curiosity how do you know the hands and crown have been replaced? I haven't found much on this watch to confirm what they looked like fresh from the factory. I wouldn't be surprised if mine has been changed, but I have no idea when or by whom.

DirtyDozen12 · Dec 31, 2024

Thanks for sharing that additional information. I wasn't sure if you had a connection to the original owner.

Regarding the hands and crown, neither are consistent with original examples and period images from catalogs and adverts. Originally, the hands on your example likely resembled the ones on mine. The design of the hour and minute hands is a "pencil" style, and the second hand has a circular counterpoise. Another possibility is that the hour and minute hands had a "baton" style, which lacks a void for luminous material. The crown may have originally looked like the one on my example, or it could have been an earlier design that is sometimes referred to as a "millerighe" crown. The crown that is presently on your example appears to be from a Taubert case. I do not know why, but these are sometimes used as replacement crowns on "tre tacche" cases.

Below are two tre tacches posted by @Warthog. The one on the left has baton hands.

Source: https://omegaforums.net/members/warthog.18153/#xfmgMedia

Below is an example of a tre tacche with a millerighe crown.

Source: https://www.lemuseonline.com/vendita-orologi/longines-3-tacche-ref-3777/

TorontoTim · Dec 31, 2024

Appreciate all the info - and I'll add mine to the longer thread on the 'tre tacche' if it's appropriate. I opened it up out of curiosity. Not sure why the photos make things appear more 'golden' but the movement is all sliver in tone, same as the stainless case.

1941 Longines with military connection

DirtyDozen12

JasonF

Radiumpassion

JohnLy

BlueHands

DirtyDozen12

BlueHands

LesXL

DirtyDozen12

Mephisto

Donko1100

DirtyDozen12

Syrte

DirtyDozen12

TorontoTim

SpeedyPhill

DirtyDozen12

TorontoTim

DirtyDozen12

TorontoTim

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