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176.007 & cal. 1040 Production Totals and the Speedmaster 125 Conspiracy Theory

dialstatic
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Sure, here you go. It didn't appear on a webpage as such. Instead I found it in a directory called 'unusual_1040'. I was actually looking for images of a 145.024 'jedi' when I stumbled across that folder and naturally couldn't resist.

http://chronomaddox.com/omega/watches/seamaster/unusual_1040/

Unfortunately no additional info on it in the folder or on the site. I just did a reverse image search on Google and found that this photo appears only in the above folder and in the thread you linked to.

Funny, now that you say 'gold case', I'm beginning to doubt. I saw it as a SS case that appeared gold under warm/yellow lighting. But yeah, that it's almost certainly a gold 'wedge' dial from a 176.005. I initially thought it could be a silver wedge (with warm lighting) but then the color bottom half of the 24h register doesn't make sense (and neither do the hands).

Regarding the 176.010: you're probably right. There were no additional details in the folder I found the Yachting image in: I just assumed it was Chuck's.
Edited:
 
Andy K
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I promised periodic updates, here's a graphic with the latest:
prod est.JPG

The estimated number of Speedmaster 125s is now 17,579. That's down a bit from previously, when it was closer to 20,000. Still casts much doubt on Omega's claim of only 2,000.

I've also published all of my notes and research on cal. 1040 and 1041 on a website I launched called Calibre 1040 (www.calibre1040.com). I promise you I'm not trying to sell anything - just sharing research for fellow collectors. It includes lots of geeky slices of serial number data, plus brief collector's guides for all 1040 and 1041 references and dials. 馃憤
 
Andy K
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U ulackfocus
This:



plus this:



equals tl;dr. 馃榿

Seriously, youze guyz are nerds. 馃え

( 馃槣 ::stirthepot:: )
No argument here!
 
incabloc
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was the red certificate of high precision part of every 125 paperwork ?

IMG_2122.JPG
 
Andy K
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incabloc incabloc
was the red certificate of high precision part of every 125 paperwork ?

IMG_2122.JPG
I honestly do not know. I have run across several FS ads or auction listings for Speedmaster 125 that claim to have full sets or box and papers, but the sets are seemingly all different. Part of that could be sellers putting together boxes and booklets sourced from eBay and claiming them to be original to the watch. But part is probably legit - I remember reading somewhere that there were several "correct" boxes for the 125 - a brown leather one, the Speedmaster crater, the read leather one, the red long box...

The paperwork could be similar in that not all came with the same pieces. I know some came with a stamped card with the alphanumeric code that corresponds to the number on back, but I think that is limited to the earlier 35 million serials from 1973, the later ones wouldn't have come with that bit.
 
omegastar
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Andy K Andy K
I honestly do not know. I have run across several FS ads or auction listings for Speedmaster 125 that claim to have full sets or box and papers, but the sets are seemingly all different. Part of that could be sellers putting together boxes and booklets sourced from eBay and claiming them to be original to the watch. But part is probably legit - I remember reading somewhere that there were several "correct" boxes for the 125 - a brown leather one, the Speedmaster crater, the read leather one, the red long box...

The paperwork could be similar in that not all came with the same pieces. I know some came with a stamped card with the alphanumeric code that corresponds to the number on back, but I think that is limited to the earlier 35 million serials from 1973, the later ones wouldn't have come with that bit.

According to this 1975 Omega catalogue each Speedmaster 125 was numbered and still on sale in this catalogue.
So it took more than 1 year to sell the 2.000 first units.

IMG_2225.JPG
 
Andy K
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omegastar omegastar
According to this 1975 Omega catalogue each Speedmaster 125 was numbered and still on sale in this catalogue.
So it took more than 1 year to sell the 2.000 first units.

IMG_2225.JPG
That's a great catalogue! Another possibility is they never updated the text in their marketing materials even after they stopped numbering the watches. Either way, a great find. More layers to the mystery!
 
omegastar
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Andy K Andy K
That's a great catalogue! Another possibility is they never updated the text in their marketing materials even after they stopped numbering the watches. Either way, a great find. More layers to the mystery!

Good point !
Feel free to use the pics in your blog.
 
Andy K
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omegastar omegastar
Feel free to use the pics in your blog.
Thanks, I may take you up on that offer! 馃憤
 
TNTwatch
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omegastar omegastar
According to this 1975 Omega catalogue each Speedmaster 125 was numbered and still on sale in this catalogue.
So it took more than 1 year to sell the 2.000 first units.

IMG_2225.JPG
Andy K Andy K
That's a great catalogue! Another possibility is they never updated the text in their marketing materials even after they stopped numbering the watches. Either way, a great find. More layers to the mystery!
Andy's point and/or they did not specify the specific number of numbered watches - that's my understanding from the various marketing materials I've seen regarding this watch.
 
Andy K
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TNTwatch TNTwatch
Andy's point and/or they did not specify the specific number of numbered watches - that's my understanding from the various marketing materials I've seen regarding this watch.

This speaks to one of the main things I'd love to learn about the Speedmaster 125 / cal. 1041:

1. Why did they stop numbering the watches?
2. Was there any logic to the letter/number system or was it just random?
3. What is the earliest reference to "2,000" pieces, since I've yet to come across marketing material from the 1970s that references that number (it may well exist, I just can't find it)?
Oh, and...
4. How many Speedmaster 125s did Omega actually make??

As of this morning I've now seen 78 distinct cal. 1041 serial numbers (3.9% of supposed production of 2,000) and there are 25 available on Chrono24. By contrast I've seen 373 cal. 1040 serials ( 0.45% of supposed production of 82,200) and there are roughly 70 for sale on Chrono24. Something doesn't add up....馃槖
 
dialstatic
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I have a hard time believing that Omega just happened to put random alphanumeric markings in the back of a watch that was (supposedly) a limited edition. Two questions:

1. How many of these codes can we compile? Maybe we can decrypt them.

2. Would it be possible to enumerate the number of 125s with codes separately? If, for example, 9 out of your 78 observed 125s have an alphanumeric code, and if we assume that your "0.45% of a given production run observed over a given period" is somewhat general, then around 2.000 of them would have the code - lending credence to the idea that the original 2000 were indeed numbered (albeit cryptically)
Edited:
 
Andy K
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dialstatic dialstatic
I have a hard time believing that Omega happened to put random alphanumeric markings in the back of a watch that was (supposedly) a limited edition.
Me too. By random, I really mean not sequential in the way that the FOIS is. I suspect there some method to the madness. But it's so strange that Omega called it limited without defining what they meant, then deepened the confusion by using a numbering system other than 1, 2, 3, etc.

dialstatic dialstatic
1. How many of these codes can we compile? Maybe we can decrypt them.

Sadly, that's a data point I have not tracked. I like your line of thought here and it is something that somewhere along the line I started to regret that I wasn't tracking. I think at some point I'll dig deeper into this.

dialstatic dialstatic
2. Would it be possible to enumerate the number of 125s with codes separately? If, for example, 9 out of your 78 observed 125s have an alphanumeric code, and if we assume that your "0.45% of a given production run observed over a given period" is somewhat general, then around 2.000 of them would have the code - lending credence to the idea that the original 2000 were indeed numbered (albeit cryptically)

I don't think it would be very credible to approximate the % of 125s that have a code using any prior observed data points. Since I wasn't documenting them for the first year or so and I don't have an intern to go back and track down all these old data points for me, it would under-estimate the numbered ones significantly. And I don't document anything for watches that don't reveal the SN so I think a study of codes would need to be treated independently of SNs.

However, examples with both a SN and an alphanumeric code would be very instructive in supporting or debunking the working theory that the later/higher serials were not numbered.
 
Ken G
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(Slightly) off topic: love the new "bezel" feature on the 1040 site, Andy! 馃榾
 
omegastar
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Andy K Andy K
This speaks to one of the main things I'd love to learn about the Speedmaster 125 / cal. 1041:

1. Why did they stop numbering the watches?
2. Was there any logic to the letter/number system or was it just random?
3. What is the earliest reference to "2,000" pieces, since I've yet to come across marketing material from the 1970s that references that number (it may well exist, I just can't find it)?
Oh, and...
4. How many Speedmaster 125s did Omega actually make??

As of this morning I've now seen 78 distinct cal. 1041 serial numbers (3.9% of supposed production of 2,000) and there are 25 available on Chrono24. By contrast I've seen 373 cal. 1040 serials ( 0.45% of supposed production of 82,200) and there are roughly 70 for sale on Chrono24. Something doesn't add up....馃槖

What if codes represent countries and the numbers the watches given to that country. For example, C for USA, and 178 units. D for Germany and 76 units, etc...Or Europe, Asia, America...
That way your logic won't work, for the codes are not there to number the watches, since they thought they would only build 2.000 units.
 
Andy K
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omegastar omegastar
What if codes represent countries and the numbers the watches given to that country. For example, C for USA, and 178 units. D for Germany and 76 units, etc...Or Europe, Asia, America...
That way your logic won't work, for the codes are not there to number the watches, since they thought they would only build 2.000 units.
That's an interesting possibility too. And probably even tougher to prove.
 
Andy K
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Ken G Ken G
(Slightly) off topic: love the new "bezel" feature on the 1040 site, Andy! 馃榾
Thanks! Hope it is helpful.
 
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