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1675 previously owned by President of Mexico.

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janice&fred
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I personally would welcome Orchi to share his opinions on the watch subject of this thread with us directly. I honestly don't know if he is banned and or able to post on this forum in a clear and respectful way for collector learning and debate.

Be careful what you wish for. Judging by what we all went through on VRF, and considering the consistency of his subsequent web postings, this site will be turned upside down until staff finally intervenes. Repeatedly.
 
993watch
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janice&fred janice&fred
Be careful what you wish for. Judging by what we all went through on VRF, and considering the consistency of his subsequent web postings, this site will be turned upside down until staff finally intervenes. Repeatedly.
Sorry janice&fred... wasn't intending to invite a dumpster fire or flogging of the community:whipped:, just to hear directly from the source of information related to the topic.
 
993watch
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::stirthepot:: 🤦... I posed a question about dial variants and am also interested in the ratio of 1675's that were worn on a jubilee as opposed to oyster bracelet. I think the watch works well visually on either. My Mk2 is on a folded link as shown below. I have to say these vintage bracelets are slinky and yet very comfortable. They remind me of the wrist feel when I wear my AP royaloak, which I regard as the most comfortable and beautifully made bracelet that I've experienced. Anyone have both for their 1675 and an opinion on jubilee vs. oyster?
859A61B9-C471-42B6-855F-8B177113DEE5.jpeg 3505FBD2-5DE9-40EB-82E8-E43BBDD59575.jpeg
 
CDCD
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So I took a bit of time to look throughout this thread after coming across Orchi's post this morning on IG.

For the sake of transparency, I have met Eric Wind and have purchased watches from him. So my opinion may be biased in that regard. However, this is also why I felt inclined to comment on the topic.

The accusation of any nefarious or deceitful practice by the dealers is, in my opinion, unwarranted and not in line with their character. Eric is the type of individual who goes out of his way to provide his clients with watches that will make them happy. He is very cognizant that the condition of a watch he sells will be tied to his reputation within the community, as noted by Cozmopak. His willingness to engage in conversation within this thread and over the phone speaks to the fact he wants to be known as a dealer who is not only transparent, but accessible. I can say that in my interactions with Eric he has been nothing shy of honest, professional and respectful. I am confident that many others share a similar outlook of him.
 
janice&fred
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1675's that were worn on a jubilee as opposed to oyster bracelet. I think the watch works well visually on either.

Oh I couldn't agree more. I love a GMT or vintage sub on a jubilee.
 
Chris75
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Yes, but that's not the point (as it totally off topic to talk about 1675 in general and jubilee bracelet as a diversive), the point is that a watch that doesn't come directly from the first owner has a dial that for some (many?) people look different from the one it should have if provenance was real.

There are concern about this now and there were already when the watch was offered from another dealer, before mr.Wind bought it.

Please don't pretend you don't understand the point.

Eric Wind hasn't change the dial, it was already this way when it was offered in September to other collectors.

This is the problem.

The argument "the dial has to be original because it comes from the first owner family and they couldn't have changed" (that is itself poor) becomes meaningless if the watch passed many hands.

I hope I was clear and I hope new evidence will come.
Edited:
 
janice&fred
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Chris75 Chris75
as it totally off topic to talk about 1675 in general and jubilee bracelet as a diversive

I will talk about anything I want related to GMT watches whether you approve or not. You have made your point known repeatedly so why not back off and allow some pleasantness into this thread rather than you keep beating that dead horse of yours.
 
Dan S
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Chris75 Chris75
... the point is that a watch that doesn't come directly from the first owner has a dial that for some (many?) people look different from the one it should have if provenance was real.

I just went back through this thread and found that you are the only person who has stated that the dial in the photos looks different than the dial in the watch (you claim that the photos show a Mk4 dial). Not a single other person has agreed with you. However, you have repeated this claim in 12 different posts in this thread, so maybe that makes you think that "some (many?)" people agree with you. But it's really just you ... over and over again.

As far as I'm concerned, you've made your point, and you should give it a rest. Continuing to repeat your claims is only going to make you look like a troll.
 
septentrio
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In my opinion, the fact that the dial on the pictures is an MK3 or MK4 is completely besides the point. This because, if I understand the posts made here by the current watch owners, the claim of it being the actual President watch is made completely based on what they were told by this Kevin Acuna intermediary dealer. I don't believe the current watch owners have documentation to underline that claim. The only thing that supports the claim is that the intermediary dealer 'saw the government forms of identification of this person'. At the pawn shop. So not even the people that are offering this watch at a hefty 60k usd premium saw this documentation. Only the guy who sold them the watch.

So no documentation to support a 60k usd claim. No direct contact with the family. Only a statement from an intermediary dealer saying he saw documentation at a pawn shop. You would have to be of pretty good faith (and the current watch owners apparently are so) to 'believe' that this is the genuine President watch and to pay that premium for it. And to be honest, I would expect two respected vintage dealers to have more tangible proof when making such a claim and asking such a premium.

If there is such tangible proof, than I would be happy to be corrected. But none of the messages in this thread seems to confirm that? I highly doubt that this Royal family member gave Kevin Acuna a copy of this ID documentation?
 
Chris75
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Dan S Dan S
I just went back through this thread and found that you are the only person who has stated that the dial in the photos looks different than the dial in the watch (you claim that the photos show a Mk4 dial). Not a single other person has agreed with you. However, you have repeated this claim in 12 different posts in this thread, so maybe that makes you think that "some (many?)" people agree with you. But it's really just you ... over and over again.

As far as I'm concerned, you've made your point, and you should give it a rest. Continuing to repeat your claims is only going to make you look like a troll.

Repetita iuvant.

Sorry, I meant some other people outside the forum, collectors in the watch community. Some or many may be relative of course.

Sorry also if I sounded crazy but I was repeatedly accused to be the bad guy (and even to not allow "some pleasantness into this thread" ) while we just heard that the watch doesn't come directly from the first owner, and that's a huge elephant in the room.

And yes I hope I made my point.
 
993watch
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Chris75 Chris75
Yes, but that's not the point (as it totally off topic to talk about 1675 in general and jubilee bracelet as a diversive), the point is that a watch that doesn't come directly from the first owner has a dial that for some (many?) people look different from the one it should have if provenance was real.

There are concern about this now and there were already when the watch was offered from another dealer, before mr.Wind bought it.

Please don't pretend you don't understand the point.

Eric Wind hasn't change the dial, it was already this way when it was offered in September to other collectors.

This is the problem.

The argument "the dial has to be original because it comes from the first owner family and they couldn't have changed" (that is itself poor) becomes meaningless if the watch passed many hands.

I hope I was clear and I hope new evidence will come.

🤦 Sighhh....It's like listening to a vinyl record with a skip.

Until (and IF) new information of substance and interest to the 1675 community becomes available, I'm attempting to add some content for us to opine on that's productive regarding Mk and bracelet types. I've shared some pics of my own personal Mk2 and believe I have some degree of cred as a collector and owner. I would enjoy seeing or hearing from other owners as well. My guess is whoever buys the Portillo watch, Eric will get some documentation from the family for said buyer to keep for their chain of custody proof. If someone on this thread is seriously interested in buying it, they can reach out to him in private I suppose.

Can we now get back to some productive and interesting dialogue on this particular watch and 1675 education in general?
 
Dan S
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septentrio septentrio
... So no documentation to support a 60k usd claim. No direct contact with the family. Only a statement from an intermediary dealer saying he saw documentation at a pawn shop. You would have to be of pretty good faith (and the current watch owners apparently are so) to 'believe' that this is the genuine President watch and to pay that premium for it. And to be honest, I would expect two respected vintage dealers to have more tangible proof when making such a claim and asking such a premium.

If there is such tangible proof, than I would be happy to be corrected. But none of the messages in this thread seems to confirm that? ...

I think this is a fair topic of conversation as it relates to the value of the watch, and we can each have our own opinion about value. The seller suggests that the intrinsic value of the watch is $40k and the premium for provenance is an additional $35k. I'm skeptical about both numbers, but that's the seller's calculation. Who knows ... maybe the right buyer is out there.

According to the seller, the watch is being sold with a "grouping of artifacts we sourced". I have pasted their description below. The seller doesn't claim that any of the objects came from the family, nor does he claim that there is an explicit connection to this particular watch. If there is documentation of the provenance, it is apparently not included in the sale. For what it's worth, there is, of course, the personal engraving on the case-back.

"These items include a copy of TIME magazine from October 8, 1979 featuring President José López Portillo on the cover of the magazine, an official Presidential signature card bearing López Portillo's original signature and accompanying letter both bearing the embossed Presidential Seal of Mexico, 3 original photos of José López Portillo including a New York Times Press Select photo of Portillo that was used in a published edition in the New York Times, and two additional original photos of López Portillo with Fidel Castro. President José López Portillo's GMT-Master reference 1675 is clearly visible in all accompanying photographs."

993watch 993watch
My guess is whoever buys the Portillo watch, Eric will get some documentation from the family for said buyer to keep for their chain of custody proof.

The seller has suggested that it would be an invasion of privacy to ask the family to provide documentation of the provenance.

georgetownhoya georgetownhoya
We are going to protect the López Portillo individuals’s privacy and that’s the end of it. Period.
Edited:
 
993watch
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Dan S. I think the issue of protecting privacy is related to the sellers posting some identification on a forum full of anonymous individuals. I completely understand that notion and would want my identity protected from fraud or theft as well in this day and age. I get that we all have an interest in more details. What I'm imagining, but certainly not representing is that Eric would/could provide some attestation to an actual willing and interested buyer.
 
Renton
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Just my 2 cents worth. We can agree to disagree.

1. Whether the watch is a Mk3 or Mk4, it’s a beautiful example of a GMT. I reckon it’s a GMT that most collectors would be more than happy to have in their collection (price aside).

2. It is a tad unfortunate that the listing of the watch stated that it “came directly” from the family, when the watch had actually made its way to the current sellers via one (or more than 1?) dealer. I know the current sellers had argued they had never claimed to have “purchased directly” from the family. Fair enough, and seems like word smithing. However, I feel that it should be been listed as just ‘coming from the family’. The use of the word ‘direct’ implied that the watch went directly from the ex President’s family to the hands of the current sellers - which we now know is not the case. If the watch had indeed ‘directly’ moved from family to current sellers, it would have been a added point to the provenance claim.

3. The current seller, Eric Wind, has been very professional and collected in his approach to the questions raised. That deserves credit. He has stated his stance and offered to speak with a forum member over the phone to discuss the topic. Don’t think you see many dealers approaching such matters this way.

4. I’m surprised only one person has raised this - the insert on Kelvin Acura’s IG and current sellers’ website looks different to me. In the latter, there is a distinct mark on the dot between the 10 and 12. This is not present in the former’s picture of the said watch. Is it just the angle? Happy to be corrected if wrong.

5. Don’t think we can conclusively ever say it’s a Mk3 or Mk4 without any high-res close up shot.
 
septentrio
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Feels like the ‘group of artifacts’ is trying really hard to make up for something that is not there...

In really honestly hope nobody is going to offer that 75k usd without tangible proof originating directly from the family. It’s not hard to engrave a caseback or even forge ID information. That is not even touching upon the question why a relative and direct family member of the ex President would go and sell a Rolex at a pawn shop...
 
Dan S
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Dan S. I think the issue of protecting privacy is related to the sellers posting some identification on a forum full of anonymous individuals. I completely understand that notion and would want my identity protected from fraud or theft as well in this day and age. I get that we all have an interest in more details. What I'm imagining, but certainly not representing is that Eric would/could provide some attestation to an actual willing and interested buyer. I recently acquired a mint 4 digit Daytona and would not want my personal information shared in cyberworld if it was up for sale.

This seems extremely speculative, and maybe wishful thinking on your part. The most obvious interpretation of "protect the López Portillo individuals’s privacy" is that the family member who sold the watch at a pawn shop will remain anonymous.
 
Dan S
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Renton Renton
4. I’m surprised only one person has raised this - the insert on Kelvin Acura’s IG and current sellers’ website looks different to me. In the latter, there is a distinct mark on the dot between the 10 and 12. This is not present in the former’s picture of the said watch. Is it just the angle? Happy to be corrected if wrong.

The seller mentioned in one of his posts that this mark was a drop of paint that was removed.
 
993watch
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Dan S Dan S
This seems extremely speculative, and maybe wishful thinking on your part. The most obvious interpretation of "protect the López Portillo individuals’s privacy" is that the family member who sold the watch at a pawn shop will remain anonymous.
Not wishful thinking, rather realistic thinking in this day and age. This forum would like to see out of general interest, but unless you or others are actually contemplating purchase of this piece...then I think that would be a matter between a potential buyer and Eric to iron out details around provenance for the asking price in private.
 
Dan S
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993watch 993watch
Not wishful thinking, rather realistic thinking in this day and age. This forum would like to see out of general interest, but unless you or others are actually contemplating purchase of this piece...then I think that would be a matter between a potential buyer and Eric to iron out details around provenance for the asking price in private.

If this were the case, the seller could easily say that documentation of provenance will be provided confidentially to the buyer. Instead of "We are going to protect the López Portillo individuals’s privacy and that’s the end of it. Period."
 
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