1675 previously owned by President of Mexico.

Tennos

This is an enjoyable thread and less vitriolic than most, which reflects well on the forum. I have no dog in the fight either, but will add my two cents. The two dealers involved have excellent reputations, and I do not believe either would risk that for the sale of one watch that is moderately priced in the context of higher end Rolex vintage collectible. They are also both readily accessible through their websites and generally responsive and open to answering questions. I have reached out to one of the dealers and gotten the background on provenance. I am satisfied the watch was gifted to Portillo by Castro and worn by Portillo. As to why a private sale rather than auction, they don't want give the auction house 20% of the sale price. You can call it a "buyer's premium" but every bidder knows they have to pay the 20% over the hammer price which is factored into the bidding. Second, in the current market, it could end up selling well below what they think is the real value. A private sale allows them to control the price. As for Orchi, what can you say? Seems to me he is wrong as often as he is right, and he gets obvious and inordinate pleasure from criticizing others, so I just don't find him to be reliable. I can't really comment on the specific observations about bracelet, dial, hands, etc., but what I can say is that a watch that is 44 years old and worn with at at least some regularity is going to get serviced, and parts may or may not get replaced. Seems to me all the uncertainties are already factored into the price.

ICONO

Some interesting fiction…I know two of the people, mentioned…simply, not true

FWIW…I cannot possibly think of a sentence, that includes all the words… ‘Watch Dealers’, ‘Mexican President’, and ‘Corruption’ 🤦

993watch

I think the provenance of Eric and Cameron's watch is solid, as it came from the family and don't believe that claim would be fabricated by two well known vintage dealers and publicly declared as such on their websites and in media. On the other hand, it appears highly probable the other assertion is true (notwithstanding the blog post).

Chris75

Orchi is 99% times truthful, as with the scandal (SCANDAL) of the blueberry inserts: fake inserts made up and sold by dealers as big as Erik Wind and Mr.Cameron, so the fact that a vintage dealers is big doesn't imply he is truthful (unfortunately is even more likely the opposite).

Orchi as a lot of haters just because he tells the truth (I am not implying you are one of those, or at least I hope you aren't).

993watch

I don’t have direct experience with Orchi, but do with Eric. Who says Orchi is truthful beyond reproach? His tone casts a discrediting view on him in my book. Not saying “big” has any value, but experience does count. I’m also not sure the final verdict has been reached on the blueberry inserts. I personally believe many are outright fakes and the whole UAE story doesn’t have substantiation that I’m aware of at this point. My educated guess is they were produced by a supplier in the past and moved out the backdoor or used as an option at certain RSC’s as a replacement but not originally sold with the watch.

Chris75

Children, fools and drunkhards tell the truth.

Orchi has often strong and colorful word, but still an opinion (or a watch) is truth independently from who owns it.

I am not discussing Mr.Wind or Mr.Palar, I am discussing a watch.

And, by the way, blueberry were never produced by Rolex.

993watch

I don’t have direct experience with Orchi, but do with Eric. Who says this Orchi character or whatever his real name is...is truthful beyond reproach and if so, why has he been reportedly banned under other aliases on other forums? The attacking tone referenced in this thread casts a discrediting view on him in my book. I’m also not saying being “big” has any value, but one’s experience and reputation does count. Nobody in any career or industry is perfect. I go by my confidence in one’s experience on a subject in a field and my experience with them directly.

I’m also not sure the final verdict has been reached on the blueberry inserts that were on GMT’s sold by most dealers that specialize in vintage Rolex. I have no dog in that fight and personally believe many are outright fakes from what I’ve seen and the whole UAE story doesn’t have substantiation, or a correct timeline that I’m aware of at this point. My educated guess in trying to filter through all the urban legend on these is they were possibly produced by a supplier in the past and moved out the backdoor or used as an option at certain RSC’s as a replacement, but not originally sold with the watch. I have no proof, nor expertise on that subject. The question then becomes, were these widely accepted as having some legitimacy and if so, did some exist among many fakes?

mancio

Rolex said loud and clear more than once that they never sold the 1675 with the blueberry bezel.
If that bezel is authentic ( and some might be ) it didn’t came with the watch but at best was a service part or prototype that somehow left Rolex.

ATWG

I find reading Orchi entertaining. He has missed quite a bit over the years and has never acknowledged his missteps. Rather, has dug in and doubled down which has banned him from numerous forums. He wears that as a badge of honor.

As for the watch, I for one wouldn’t pay a single penny premium due to its Mexican provenance. These watches could be had around $10k 3-4 years ago and now they’ve leveled off at around $20k. I find it extremely difficult to justify a $75k price tag. So, it’s pointless in my mind to go after proof of provenance.... who cares???

The insert is a non factor at this point as it’s quite easily replaced. Also, who knows how often/hard the watch was truly worn.

Back to Michigan primary results....a lot more interesting to watch two 77/78 yr olds dunking it out.

Chris75

I totally agree with you, but here apparently the dial was changed to give more appeal (as the mk3 "radial" dial is the rarest of 1675 matte dial) to a more common MK4/ MK5 1675.

ATWG

I understand the nuance of MK3 dial and it’s rarity. That’s why I mentioned the premium valuation currently at $20K vs an MK5 which is substantially less.

The numbers just don’t add up.

good reading:

https://www.vwcltd.com/in-depth-all...bout-the-rolex-gmt-1675-mk3-matt-radial-dial/

993watch

The case is a 4.1 serial which would seem to support either a Mk3 or Mk4 matte dial. For "rarity", a Mk3 is obviously the preferable choice. How can you be certain it isn't a Mk3 in the pic he posted? I can't make the pic out well enough to tell and that was my reason for posting about insufficient proof to support the counter claim.

Chris75

You can tell by the pic it's not a Mk3. If you check on Orchi IG you'll see more than one pic.

Orchi doesn't have any particular beef with Erik Wind, the only other time he found something wrong with this dealer was one year ago with an Explorer that Mr.Wind had for sale with a wrong (replaced) hand.

Chris75

Sure, and if something it's not acknowledged by Rolex it's not Rolex original, not matter how many good experience anyone had with the seller or how many stories the seller tell (the funniest I heard was "they were made by same company that did insert for Rolex but not for Rolex"): if it's not made for or by Rolex then it's aftermarket.