Does anyone have any opinions on whether or not the following dial and/or hands might be a (really clean) re-lume (or at least replacement hands)? Part of me thinks they look a little too pristine (relative to the bezel, for example). But then again, the rest of the dial itself does look pretty clean. What do you think? Thanks,

 

Itd be good to see more pictures as the overall condition and correctness would help build an overall pictures as to whether such good lume is in keeping.

From what I can see from one pictures, it’s entirely plausible the lume is original and that would be my vote. It’s not uncommon for bezels to bear the brunt of dings and damage given how prominent they are.

 

I also vote for all original. It’s not uncommon for the hand and dial lume plots to be slightly different shades. These are close enough for me to believe they are from the same era.

 

I vote re-lume and replacement hands (too white, second hand too short) but as mentioned it’s a very clean and consistent job and doesn’t look too comically pumpkin-ish or faux-tina’d.

 

Not an expert, my opinion is just that.

IMHO, my gut says relume based mainly on the lack of any definition at the step. Then there is this bit of old wobbly lume that suggests the original lume shrunk. When that happens, it exposes the white of the index below. Because this appears to have lume in this photo, it suggests the possibility of relume over the original.

But, i am not good at determining original lume. When i have asked others about this type of question, they typically say to be conservative in your evaluation. This is my conservative evaluation.

If the price was right, I wouldn't hesitate to wear and enjoy this watch.

 

Any UV photos?

 

Here are a couple more photos, but they aren't very close/high-res...

Yeah the short second hand was making me think replacement too. But I'm not sure if that makes a dial relume more likely or not?

I've asked, and they said they need to get the watch from a bank safe next week.

So are you suggesting the possibility of a relume over the original that was not scraped/washed before the relume?

 

Yes, that was my thought.

Just noticed the pusher tubes are clean. Recent sercice?

Regarding the lume/relume question, what does the seller think?

 

I am not an expert but my opinion is that we have here a relume. I am also curios what other members with more experience will tell about this question.

 

I'm currently debating between the potentially relumed watch above (from a dealer), and this watch below (from a private seller), the latter of which I don't have the same relume doubts about, but there does seem to be a small amount of degradation of the lume at the 12 o'clock and 1 o'clock plots (whitening and lumpiness, respectively).

But, the private seller watch does have a somewhat cleaner bezel (and some other small goodies, like an original box and extract, and the original pushers in a separate bag). The private seller watch is available for ~$10k, and the dealer watch (including the 1039 bracelet) is available for ~$13k (still negotiating for both); does anyone have any opinions on which way you'd go/recommend? (I'm essentially viewing the watches as comparably priced, given that I'm not necessarily interested in the 1039 bracelet and would likely sell it to bring the final cost of the dealer watch down closer to my $10k budget).

 

They said that the movement was serviced 3 years ago, and that it has been worn very little since then, and that "all parts are original", which, given the short chrono second hand, makes me skeptical. They said they would answer my other questions next week upon retrieving it from the safe...

 

For the price I like the private seller example a lot more. Much cleaner bezel indeed, untouched original hands, which make me think the dial probably is as well. Crown has been replaced but that can be fixed. Good luck with your decision and purchase!

 

That lume sure as hell looks different to the lume on my 145.012 - not that I can confirm mine is original.

 

This is an example of what i believe is original lume:


This is a picture of Ed White, because, there’s never too much Ed White:



It's hard to tell from the photos but the lugs on the private watch look a wee bit beat up.

 

I also think relume and prefer the private seller watch.
The lume on dealer piece seems too homogeneous and the hand lume is significantly lighter which is somewhat atypical, they usually age darker than lume plots imo.

 

Two new ones in question (about potential relumes): The first (photographed in a hand) is a 105.012-66. The second is just described as a 321 with a year of production of 1969, which doesn't make any sense, right?

 

First one (photo in hand) by far. Correct bracelet, correct pushers for a 105.012, DON bezel looks good with wear commensurate to everything else and a very nice dial. Second one has service hands (notice the sweep second hand is too short), suspicious lume color on both hands and dial and the bezel has a chip just where the dot over 90 should be.

2nd one seems to have a slightly sharper case but the first one ain’t bad at all. Would definitely opt for that one if the price is right.

 

I agree that the first one is stronger overall (it's also cheaper!), but so are you saying that its dial/hand lume also appears original to you, whereas the conservative assessment of the second one would be to suspect that it might not be?

 

The second is 100% a relume and not the best I’ve seen. The first one could have a relumed dial and sweep hand but it’s a lot less obvious and a lot nicer to look at.

 

The second also seems to have the "wrong" bracelet. Looks like a 1098 (19mm) instead of a 1116 (20mm), but on the proper endlinks.