Hi all,

I'm considering buying a Speedmaster 145.012-68, but it has an 861 movement in it. Otherwise, it's all correct looking. Does anyone know if the watch *should* work correctly, i.e. are the 321 and 861 movements interchangeable?

Thanks for your advice and insight,
Conor

 

it will work as well as a 1967 Mercedes with a 1984 engine.

 

Ditto

 

It may have been made to work but it will significantly impact value and collectibility.

Are you sure it’s not a 145.022-68 with and incorrect caseback? Have you seen the back of the dial to check for 321 vs 861 dial feet?

 

this seems more likely than modifying the feet of a 321 to fit an 861. what's the movement #?

 

Thanks all for your inputs.

The movement no. is 30590157.
I haven't seen the back of the dial to check the feet.

Here's the link to the watch: https://www.purcellauctioneers.ie/c...nd-rarities-to-include-allcock-brown-lot-237/

Any other thoughts? Much appreciated.

 

This reference is expected to have the 861 movement. That’s correct.

i think the caseback must’ve been changed at some point. Watch isn’t a 145012-68 SP. The description “Serial number on inside of rear cover 145012-68 SP. Numbers on workings 30590157” should be understood as ‘Reference number on inside of rear cover is 145012-68 SP. Serial Number typically relates to the movement …. is how I’d understand it


I haven’t followed so not sure the value for a ‘71 speedy. You can check sold listing in the for sale section here, or eBay.

edit - https://speedmaster101.com/serial-quick-reference-to-78/ might be helpful in checking if the movement serial is about right … happy hunting.

 

It’s not even a -68. No AML. Just a -69 with a swapped caseback. In the future please post photos for better info.

 

Thanks again folks.

According to speedmaster101, the movement number should be from a 145.022-69 (I.e. 2842 xxxx – 3162 xxxx).

So it seems is a 145.022 with incorrect case back. Is that how is seems to you?

 

Please read my previous post.

 

Ah OK, got it. I was initially thinking (in the absence of any info on the movement serial number) that it was likely a -68 (given the DON bezel) but the dial and movement had been swapped out. So odd to me that the caseback is the incorrect piece.

Thanks all for your insights.

 

The dial is not consistent with either -68 reference, please study those references to understand the obvious differences (AML, lume plots, etc); that knowledge will be helpful to you in the future. A substantial range of -69s came with a DON. The 145.022-68 is rare in comparison and has a distinctive dial. So the simplest explanation by far is that the dial and movement both belong to a -69.

The rest is speculation. Was the caseback swapped onto a -69 (likely), or were the movement and dial swapped into a 145.012-68 (possible)? Difficult to say, although there are some experts here who might be able to distinguish the shape of the midcase with good photos if they could be tempted to look carefully.

Again, I’d strongly suggest posting photos since that is preferred on the forum as you are probably aware. In addition to serving your own immediate needs, the thread can then serve as a useful archival repository from which others can learn. Also I guarantee that you will get more engagement.

 

Yes that picture paints a thousand words. Highly likely to be an early -69 which has a painted logo and stepped dial, DON bezel. Just a swapped back.

 

The watch sold for €4500+ premium.

 

It’s going to be quite a lot of effort to come out on top

 

Really lots of mixed upp stuff?

Nice and old 1039 bracelet from 66.
Serial nr 30590157 should be a 145.022-69
Lume is ok, lost some of it
Dial is hard to see....
Case might be ok? Possible light polish maybe?
Caseback from a 145.012-68 and scratched
OK bezel
Pushers and crown hard to see on the pictures
Crystal really worn and scratched, cant see the logo
Hand have been taken on/off a couple of times with the metal visible
Movement has some weird scratches..??


So in total 5720 Euro/6165$ with the premium!
And ad in a full service, and also shipping...

Not the best deal maybe??

 

Back to The Future!
it's a time traveling watch from the future....
Vintage 1971 Omega Speedmaster Professional, chronograph steel cased 17 Jewel gentleman's bracelet wristwatch, with black face and three subsidiary dials and 1039 watch strap, 4th quarter of 1966. Currently not running consistently, requires substantial and professional cleaning. Serial number on inside of rear cover 145012-68 SP. Numbers on workings 30590157 and Ω861. A short video can be sent if you contact us at [email protected]

i guess the auctioneers wanted to cover all the bases and CYA.

 

Hi All,
Confession time - I bought the above Speedy! I registered after the auction to post here but collected the watch and thought it better to hold off until it had a clean and service.

For info, I'm more of a Rolex guy but have a Speedy Broad Arrow GMT (3581.50.00 from 2006), Speedy X-33 (1st Gen 3290.50.00 c1998) and a Constellation Double Eagle (1519.51.00 from 2006) - I'd been keeping an eye out for a birth-year Speedy and saw this one with a very low estimate but a few obvious issues -caseback ('68 vs. '69+ serial), bracelet and overall condition. I was looking for a daily-beater rather than a museum piece so was happy to pick up a bit of a project but got a bit excited and ended up overbidding to win the lot at €4,500. Auctioneer was surprised at the result and was happy enough to do a deal on the commission side when I collected it from Co. Offaly but still ended up costing €5,000 (+ diesel for the road trip down from Dublin)

To say the watch was in need of a clean was a bit of an understatement - bracelet took 4 trips through the ulstrasonic with an alkaline cleaning agent and I'm still not sure another go or 2 wouldn't be needed!. 1 bracelet pin had rusted in-situ and left some pitting on the case between the lugs and the end-links seemed to have been bent a little bit to fit (see pictures below) but the bracelet itself was in great condition for it's age. Seems to have a full set of links with some stretch on 1 set of expanding links but overall is pretty tight and very wearable.

The chronograph reset wasn't working but turned out to be the accumulated cr@p under the pusher rather than anything mechanical.
The watch was actually keeping ok time but would stop after c12 hours from a full wind so went off to the watchmaker for a thorough clean and service.

I picked up the watch yesterday (€350 lighter in the pocket) - watchmaker said the movement was in pretty good condition but hadn't been serviced in a long while and oils etc had degraded. Dismantled, cleaned and re-oiled and back in my hands now running strongly.

Crystal had a light polish revealing Omega logo on the underside and much clearer than before still some surface scratches but he didn't want to get too aggressive.
Bezel is in good-enough shape compared to some DON bezels I've seen - some paint loss but reflects a 50+ year-old watch nicely.
Dial looks to be in good shape with lume on the hour plots aged nicely and pretty clean.
Hands aren't in great shape - there is lume loss on hour/minute/second and lume dust had to be blown from the dial-surface during service. There is also quite a bit of paint loss on the hands but still serviceable as a daily wear.
Crown looks ok but chronograph pushers have some pitting on the stems.
The case itself still looks sharp - not enough of a Speedy guy to rule out a light polish in the past be definitely nothing major - showing nicks etc. commensurate with age and the only major issue was pitting between 1 set of lugs from the rusted bracelet pin. Watchmaker cleaned same but I didn't wan't to go down the refinish / polish route so left them as-is.
Caseback is from a 1968 Speedy and has deep-enough scratches from a ham-fisted attempt to open - auctioneer was a bit evasive on collection so may have been down to him. I prefer the plain hippocampus rather than war-an-peace written casebacks on later versions so will probably keep as-is.

So all in all - in the watch for €5.350 which I suspect isn't the greatest deal ever!. I think there may be some value in the bracelet and end-links and I may move them along in time - watch is on a nato at the moment but I've seen vintage Speedy's look good on chunky brown / black leather straps so may end up going down that route.

Some pictures are attached for your enjoyment - unfortunately I didn't take enough before pictures to accurately reflect absolutely awful state it was in but t hink of a bachelor farmer wearing a watch for 30/40 years without cleaning (himself or the watch) and you'll get the idea

 

Sorry Guys, last bit reads :

Some pictures are attached for your enjoyment - unfortunately I didn't take enough before pictures to accurately reflect absolutely awful state it was in but think of a bachelor farmer wearing a watch for 30/40 years without cleaning (himself or the watch) and you'll get the idea

Tried an edit to tidy up but got rejected as spam!

 

A few more after pics..