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Speedies 321 dial feet altered to fit an 861 movement. Can it be reinstalled in a 321??

  1. gemini4

    gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed Aug 27, 2015

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    I have this old extra105.003 dial and I'm planning on using it soon. Never really noticed before but it appears that the feet had been shortened to fit into an 861 movement. My understanding is that the smaller feet will fit back in the 321 movement and the dial will work as long as the screws securing the dial are long enough. Is this correct or is the solution more involved.

    2nd question is about the amount of work involved. Must the watchmaker remove the chrono set, or parts thereof, to change a 321dial?

    Help is appreciated

    image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
     
  2. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Aug 27, 2015

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    The 321 and 861 use different methods of securing the dial feet. The 861 uses smaller diameter and shorter dial feet that are held in place via a screw that screws in from the outer diameter of the movement, so the point of the screw digs into the foot part way down. Here is a photo of where the screw goes on an 1861 (same as 861):

    [​IMG]

    The 321 has longer, larger dial feet, and the feet are held with can style screw that cut into the feet. These rely on the dial feet protruding through the main plate far enough so that the cam screws can catch the feet. Here is a 321 with the dial feet screws marked:

    [​IMG]

    I can't say from the photos if the modification made would prevent the dial from being used on a 321 again - you would have to try it on a movement to see...

    Cheers, Al
     
  3. gemini4

    gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed Aug 27, 2015

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    Thanks so much Al for visually explaining this to me.

    I am correct in presuming that:

    No need to remove any chrono parts to remove a 321 dial and
    If the screw don't meet the feet properly, this issue can be fixed by either using longer screws or soldering on longer feet?

    Thanks as always

    Marc
     
  4. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Aug 27, 2015

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    Well the movement has to be removed from the case and the hands removed, but no movement parts need to be removed.

    On a 321, the length of the screws is irrelevant. The length and diameter of the feet are the important thing, and if the dial does not work as is, then replacing the dial feet is one option certainly.

    Cheers, Al
     
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  5. gemini4

    gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed Aug 27, 2015

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    Great. Now I'm fully informed. Thanks again
     
  6. pascs

    pascs Aug 27, 2015

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    I'd say the dial feet will be just a fraction too short. I have tried an 861 dial on a 321 movement and the feet were too short, they fit into the movement but the securing screws didnt catch the dial feet.

    You'd need longer dial feet to fit it to the 321 movement, not sure if there is an easy way to add some length to the dial feet?
     
  7. gemini4

    gemini4 Hoarder Of Speed Aug 27, 2015

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    Thanks pascs

    I think you are correct and I've already spoken to someone about resoldering new, longer feet.
     
  8. toddle321

    toddle321 Dec 14, 2016

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    I apologize for reviving a zombie thread, but does anyone happen to know the screw number that holds on a 321 dial? Al drew red arrows (second picture down below) to the screws I am looking for. My watchmaker just called to tell me that a watch I dropped off recently is missing one screw... :( Thank you in advance!


     
  9. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Dec 14, 2016

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    72200003208
     
  10. oddboy

    oddboy Zero to Grail+2998 In Six Months Dec 14, 2016

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  11. toddle321

    toddle321 Dec 14, 2016

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    oddboy likes this.
  12. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Dec 14, 2016

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    oddboy and toddle321 like this.
  13. Andy K

    Andy K Dreaming about winning an OFfie one day. Dec 14, 2016

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    So what was the end result of the dial from the OP? Curious to see it installed. Was any cosmetic restoration done on the dial?
     
  14. M'Bob

    M'Bob Dec 14, 2016

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    Before completely entombing this thread, if someone could help me visualize this, I would be most obliged: I get how, in the 861 scenario, the dial foot is secured be a screw exerting a lateral force to hold the foot in place.

    But with the 321, the screws appear to line up axially with the feet, therefore I can't sort out how they would secure them unless the tip of the dial feet were threaded. Since they are not, I am clearly missing something.
     
  15. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Dec 14, 2016

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    You screw the dial foot screw all the way in to start, then the dial foot sticks through the hole, and you then unscrew the screw. The screw has very sharp edges on the head, and those slice into the dial foot, and lift it at the same time (pulling it towards the dial side of the movement).

    Cheers, Al
     
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  16. M'Bob

    M'Bob Dec 14, 2016

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    Many thanks, Al. Still a bit foggy but I will marinate on it a bit and see if I get it.
     
  17. U5512

    U5512 Dec 14, 2016

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    Great info....thanks!!!
     
  18. Jaacck

    Jaacck Dec 14, 2016

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    look forward to seeing it installed. :)
     
  19. Archer

    Archer Omega Qualified Watchmaker Dec 14, 2016

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    Maybe some photos of said screw will help - just shot these for you...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    You can see that the edge of the screw is very sharp, so it cuts into the post for the dial foot. The second photo shows that on one side a portion of this sharp edge has been removed. When you start off, this flat that has been machined where the material was removed from the screw removed is over the hole in the main plate that the dial foot goes through. Again you start with the screw all the way in, stick the dial on the opposite side, then from the train side (top plate in watchmaking terms) you unscrew the dial foot screw. That sharp edge cuts into the foot, and as the screw backs out, it draws the dial tight on the other side...

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers, Al
     
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  20. M'Bob

    M'Bob Dec 14, 2016

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    Ahh, got it, this help a lot, thanks much for taking the time. So, after installation, if you pull the dial off the watch, and look at the feet under magnification, you will see little "scores" on the shafts of these feet, where the sharp edge bit into it, correct?

    Regards,

    Bob