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145.012-67 SP - thoughts on this one, please?

zinterz
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I've found this 145.012 watch for sale and I'm wondering what the forum's thoughts are on its originality, please?

Dial seems correct (T SWISS MADE T, step dial, applied logo, Professional text) as well as DON bezel, plain caseback besides Speedmaster and Hippocampus logo. I'm not sure about the hands and pushers, or whether I've missed anything else. Bezel could be in better condition, but I don't think it's a dealbreaker unless somebody corrects me that I should be more concerned. I also wonder whether the hands and hour markers have had any work on them, as they seem to be in very good condition for the considered age.

Please be patient with me, I'm new to the vintage Speedy game. I do own Moonwatch Only, but wanted a wider view. Thanks in advance!

EDt0w2Z.webp ef9J927.webp ysWgvgL.webp 7FHrHgO.webp f1OdURD.webp 8AWlUzX.webp
 
Davidt
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I’ve only glanced at the pictures but my gut tells me the hands and hour marker have been relumed and the hands repainted. Better pictures needed to confirm.

A crucial piece of info is the price.
 
zinterz
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Davidt Davidt
I’ve only glanced at the pictures but my gut tells me the hands and hour marker have been relumed and the hands repainted. Better pictures needed to confirm.

A crucial piece of info is the price.
Thanks for the reply. It’s an auction, but reserve including fees is approximately £5850 in the UK.
 
pdxleaf
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I had a 145.012 with pumpkin lume. The lume could be original. Without seeing it in person, I'm inclined to think it's not relumed. It's puffy, which is often a bad sign, but the top of the markers are slightly shrunk and I don't see much outside the edge.

The lume in the hands matches the markers, which van happen but doesn't very often. That's a warning sign, but not proof positive.

My old one for comparison

20200512_145407.webp 20200526_193424.webp
 
SOG53
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Assessing the entire watch-

Case looks pretty shiny on lugs, so some polishing
Caseback pretty scratched up, Edward Scissorshands job
Bezel has diffuse road rash, not terrible but its an issue
Dial body looks ok no visible damage
Hour lume plots could well be original, I agree w @pdxleaf above
Hands look like they were re-lumed to match hour plots
Correct drop sweep hand for -67
Movement- no pictures to check SN if in range for this reference- so its a question

So where does this fall on the speedmaster101 scale? Fair? Good? Very good?
I would vote Good minus- due to case and bezel, with question of some relume on hands- and unknown movement SN, condition
On speedmaster101 price chart from Aug- Good examples of this ref avg $6300 USD head only-
At reserve price incl fees you are starting at 5850 pounds = $7881 USD, already well above the Good range
So to me it would be overpriced at that starting number. Its not a great example not worth paying for IMO
 
Porteroso
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I like it. As a whole, it works very well. But as said, seemingly overpriced by a good bit. And I would not be so sure the whole thing hasn't been relumed. Even if it has, it is quite attractive. A really good lumer can make the tips of the hour markers seem shrunken a bit.

edit: I will say, if the hands and dial had original lume, it might be worth that, or more. Someone could swap in a better case, and it might be a spectacular watch. Really all depends on the lume.
Edited:
 
ibis888
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It definitely seems polished... and the pushers and crown appear to be service replacements.

I would not pay $8,000 USD for that watch personally.
 
SOG53
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Just noticed that ilovemyspeedmaster.com is pulling up incorrect price quotes from Speedmaster101.com. There is no Poor category on current price chart so prices are shifted and being displayed in wrong categories on ilovemyspeedmaster site.
So better check price chart itself when researching until this is corrected
IMG_4516.webp IMG_4517.webp
 
pdxleaf
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SOG53 SOG53
Just noticed that ilovemyspeedmaster.com is pulling up incorrect price quotes from Speedmaster101.com. There is no Poor category on current price chart so prices are shifted and being displayed in wrong categories on ilovemyspeedmaster site.
So better check price chart itself when researching until this is corrected
IMG_4516.webp IMG_4517.webp
@eugeneandresson ?
 
zinterz
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You have all been extremely helpful. I've learnt a lot from all of your comments. Thank you all so much, it's very thoroughly appreciated. Lots to consider. I have asked for more photos, so let's see what they come back with. Oh and yes, I forgot the movement photo... whoops!
 
padders
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That screams relume to me. As noted above, maybe just the hands but I do strongly think it has had work. Good work, but work all the same.
 
Porteroso
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Yeah, for sure. Shame, though at the right price, I still find it a really nice watch. The relume might affect collectability, but for me, not attractiveness.
 
zinterz
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Porteroso Porteroso
Yeah, for sure. Shame, though at the right price, I still find it a really nice watch. The relume might affect collectability, but for me, not attractiveness.
Visible price on The Saleroom is £4000 and reserve hasn't been met, so based on the info provided by other members, it's gonna end up being A little overpriced. Unfortunate, but there we go! Really useful and information from you all - thank you.
 
Spacefruit
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98 % relume

The more I look at it, the less I like the colour.

The colour is unusual, and unusually clean. Taking the condition of the rest of the watch, I would have to say markers are re applied. No question on the hands.
 
Porteroso
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Spacefruit Spacefruit
98 % relume

The more I look at it, the less I like the colour.

The colour is unusual, and unusually clean. Taking the condition of the rest of the watch, I would have to say markers are re applied. No question on the hands.
The macro shots have a different color scheme though. The first shots are not as ridiculous, a good bit more faded. But I guess the macro shots could be more accurate? I think not though, since color accuracy is not the macro lense's strong suit on camera phones.
 
Spacefruit
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Porteroso Porteroso
The macro shots have a different color scheme though. The first shots are not as ridiculous, a good bit more faded. But I guess the macro shots could be more accurate? I think not though, since color accuracy is not the macro lense's strong suit on camera phones.
While the colour did play a part in my opinion, it is more the 100% clean surface, with no flaws or inconsistencies, no black spots - which is out of keeping with the obviously used condition of the rest of the watch.

As with all these things, its just an opinion, but one born out of logic, observation and experience. Sometimes my opinions are just intuition.
 
befobe
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I vote for a (quite good) relume too, especially because of the perfect color match between hands and index.
With more than 50y, it cannot be like that, except if this watch spent 50 years in a safe without any sunlight.
But then, would have it aged like that?... 🧐

Anyway, a nice relume can be a smart choice. It really depends on, daily, how "comfortable" you are with this idea.
 
Porteroso
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Spacefruit Spacefruit
While the colour did play a part in my opinion, it is more the 100% clean surface, with no flaws or inconsistencies, no black spots - which is out of keeping with the obviously used condition of the rest of the watch.

As with all these things, its just an opinion, but one born out of logic, observation and experience. Sometimes my opinions are just intuition.
Oh I totally agree about the relume, I was just commenting on its attractiveness. Like, would I want to wear that watch, with that lume. For me, it's still attractive, unless it's extra yellow like those macro shots....
 
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