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105.012-63 buying advice wanted

H
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I’m interested in acquiring a pre moon speedmaster and have come across this one. From what I have read on here and the speedmaster101 website it appears to be in a relatively good condition. But I wanted to get the collective opinion of everyone here before moving any further with it. At £12950 it’s no small purchase for myself and having had an issue with a Breitling from a particular dodgy dealer I want to make sure it is everything it should be. Thanks in advance.

CE81A74D-0B8E-4875-8BF0-CE749509647A.jpeg EC6357D7-D24D-487F-B288-799CF7B23817.jpeg 41C73A48-0188-4E2C-9A61-145EF98FB4DE.jpeg 18A37A09-4E96-48E7-939B-E9AC48F891B9.jpeg 76F66B17-CE76-41E1-B0C5-BE6A25C50C13.jpeg 8C0E54E9-A0DC-4F4D-B3FF-8F2BC06B1DF2.jpeg CDFBF938-5F5D-433E-B3A9-1B2F021118B8.jpeg CF482F4A-F7C2-4ED8-B286-8B0F7AB4B132.jpeg 2C17CCFB-072D-4D7A-93EE-F5EA2F2356AE.jpeg D2EEF590-6CCD-443B-B716-068122B7C90C.jpeg 019B1146-3894-49B7-8B44-73E3FE222526.jpeg 71DF262E-41B7-4A33-9E16-78B2058FE06F.jpeg 68E053FC-5E10-4751-98C2-655517CD65BA.jpeg
 
Dan S
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I'm curious if the listing says anything about the lume. BTW, that watch was serviced by my watchmaker. Small world.
 
momentomori
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Might the chronograph's minute counter hand be a replacement? It looks newer than the rest. That's about all I can see. I am a novice, though.
 
Dgercp
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The step seems very flat wirh no noticable bump on the lume markers at the step. Also the lume color on hands and markers match almost too closely. But maybe I am overreading into it.
 
airansun
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This watch
CD92B25E-DD53-48D9-97B4-E8C2B0D3404D.jpeg 51B50721-40BD-4DF3-9958-92686CFFFF2B.jpeg

Moonwatch Only B1 dial

How the D lines up...

(So, I prepared this post before I checked the link above.)

The lume made me look closely at the dial. I can’t tell, but between the color and this, I’d want to see it in person before I decided.
 
B09D4758-AC53-44C9-BA2A-935AC9C9C7B7.jpeg
S
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For reference "SWISS MADE" on my 105.012-63
My serial is very early 2052040x so probably made in a different batch to your watch.
I believe the Moonwatch Only example is also very early as it also has the symetrical coupling clutch as mine.
(Late 63s and beyond 65,66, have the asymmetrical clutch)
Given the dial application process I am sure the tolerances were not as tight as todays.
Anyway seems you has found the watch as a sales listing on OF by a very repulatble seller. So all good 😀
20171122_145235 (5).jpg 20171122_145235 (2).jpg
Edited:
 
IHBrian
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From what I can see, the chrono sweep and chrono minute hand have been replaced.
 
H
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IHBrian IHBrian
From what I can see, the chrono sweep and chrono minute hand have been replaced.

Would that raise questions about a possible relume as the lume on the Chrono sweep, as pointed out earlier, looks to match the rest of the lume quite well.
 
kov
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Darren is a trusted seller and mod on here.

I would have bought this watch in a flash if I hadn't read this :

DLT222 DLT222
An extract was applied for but its missing records.

Let's be clear about this. The missing information doesn't mean that the watch is wrong. It happens. But to me it was a show stopper, especially when it comes to a special collector reference like the -63.

For somebody who doesn't care of the Extract, this watch is very well priced and looks great. And if Darren could have got an Extract, I think the watch would easily have been offered for sale for a couple thousands more than it actually is.
 
H
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airansun airansun
This watch
CD92B25E-DD53-48D9-97B4-E8C2B0D3404D.jpeg 51B50721-40BD-4DF3-9958-92686CFFFF2B.jpeg

Moonwatch Only B1 dial

How the D lines up...

(So, I prepared this post before I checked the link above.)

The lume made me look closely at the dial. I can’t tell, but between the color and this, I’d want to see it in person before I decided.

I do see what you mean that the D is slightly further to the right. I may be looking at it too much but the letters also look slightly different. Also as said there is no distinguishable step this could just be differences in photos and would be best to see in person.
 
H
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kov kov
Darren is a trusted seller and mod on here.

I would have bought this watch in a flash if I hadn't read this :

Let's be clear about this. The missing information doesn't mean that the watch is wrong. It happens. But to me it was a show stopper, especially when it comes to a special collector reference like the -63.

For somebody who doesn't care of the Extract, this watch is very well priced and looks great. And if Darren could have got an Extract, I think the watch would easily have been offered for sale for a couple thousands more than it actually is.[

What would lead to an extract being missing and not being able to be applied for?
 
kov
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Omega are missing information for some serials. Or even whole batches of serials.

This is a common issue for 2998s for example. Also a good number of 105.002s are affected. It can well be that this 105.012-63 is an early one and the serial is part of the same book that was destroyed in fire, and information lost.

It also happens to more recent serials, 80s for example. Their data, however available most of the time, can be inconsistent or missing time to time.
 
IHBrian
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H Hwills
Would that raise questions about a possible relume as the lume on the Chrono sweep, as pointed out earlier, looks to match the rest of the lume quite well.

It doesn't look relumed to me, I am no expert on relume though. I will say that I can tell the sweep hand doesn't match the rest of the lume. The hour and minute hand match the markers to my eyes but, the sweep does not. I would request a UV shot to be sure though if there is a question with the lume. While I was looking for a new chrono sweep hand for my 65 it took a lot of looking to find an original and I paid for it. The reason I am mentioning this is because when I was looking I saw some hands that looked just like the one on this watch but were not tritium, just had the nice yellow patina color. Either way, original hands can be found, you'll just have to pay for them.
Good luck!
 
S
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I applied for an extract but recevied the responce from Omega that there is not enough information or some info is missing.
By chance I was able to find out more though a watched dealer in Swizerland who works closely with the Omega Museam

"As promised, we dug a little deeper about your 105.012-63. There is no production archive as these were assembled
at Lemania. However, we looked in the delivery books and found this mvt number was delivered to United Kingdom
on March 9, 1964. However, there is no reference number confirmed on this one and that is why they can’t complete
an archive extract."

So there seems to be quite a few early 105.012 that have incomplete records and therefore Omega cannot release a extract.
 
befobe
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Aouch. Sorry, but I fear it is too short for "us", I mean, the poor OF-not expert-but speedy lovers-members...
 
ndgal
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befobe befobe
Aouch. Sorry, but I fear it is too short for "us", I mean, the poor OF-not expert-but speedy lovers-members...

Look at the 't' in Speedmaster.
Look at all the numbers on the subdials (the 3's are the easiest to spot).
The PROFESSIONAL font is completely wrong for a 105.012 (no T or close T dials).
And of course, the SWISS MADE as mentioned in a previous comment.
The Chrono hand is hiding another tell.
(Most likely a 145.012 dial that has been altered).

I have a 105.012-63 that is ~200 serials above this one. It has a symmetrical clutch bridge and an extract was issued by Omega with no problem.

My guess is that this movement did not originate in a Speedmaster to begin with. Hence why an extract could not be issued.
 
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