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  1. michael e Still learning. Sep 30, 2014

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    I like the colour, condition is not ideal but if I had the cash I wouldn't mind it in the collection.
    It is good to see any Omega fetch a high price, good for owners anyway :thumbsup:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    ,
     
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  2. Barking mad Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Sep 30, 2014

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    No offence taken. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if we all liked the same watch none of us would be able to afford it.

    Cheers
     
  3. dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Sep 30, 2014

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    Yea its known that they photoshop their images, here'a a great example of the same exact Heuer selling three times years apart (pic from onthedash):

    290Aut3646ThreeSales.jpg
     
  4. Pasbru Sep 30, 2014

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    In two years it went up $21,500.00 in value...Really chaching!
     
  5. Dogmann Sep 30, 2014

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    Hi all,

    Firstly whilst I appreciate a fair amount of patina on a vintage watch as that is what IMHO gives it character too much degradation ruins it for me and of course that is just MO and what I like no one else has to agree or like what I do. So for me that first watch for me irrespective of how rare or unique it is is just of no interest but interestingly Barking Mad's example appeals to me and I would try and buy it if I was into speedies of that era.

    dsio

    Wow those pictures of the same Heuer Autavia are really shocking I would never of guessed it is the same watch in all 3 pictures and has now put me off ever trying to buy any watch from an auction unless I have been able to view it in person so much for the camera never lies. Also where did the scratch on the bezel by 10 disappear to on the 2nd picture? only to reappear on the 3rd picture? as well as some other marks on the bezel same goes for the lugs that look very different in the 2nd picture to the 1st and 3rd? and the increase in price at the last sale is insane as I've seen much better examples of those Heurer's even recently sell for a quarter of that price.

    Marc
     
  6. MSNWatch Vintage Omega Aficionado Staff Member Sep 30, 2014

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    The nicer example will be worth more - you can beat it up and age it to look like the AQ example but you cant transform the beat up example into a nicer piece. I certainly respect your willingness to pay big money for this but the nicer example with a better preserved tropical dial will be worth even more money.

    .
     
  7. Spacefruit Prolific Speedmaster Hoarder Sep 30, 2014

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    I appreciate the underlying concepts of the mantra of condition condition condition when collecting watches, or indeed many other things. However I feel we are entering a new era, where an alternate condition is attracting a new kind of collector.

    This rapidly rising group seeks a certain kind of wear, degradation, or age related decay, and is becoming valued by enough people to ensure they push values well above expectations.

    It is clear that there are very few individuals who value both, to the same extent that one person will actually pay top money for an example of each. I have noticed particular derision heaped upon the high prices paid for brown, or patinated dials as in the case of this watch, lot 84 Antiquorum in New York - but other degraded dials attract similar vitriol. And not without foundation. It is after all a damaged watch.

    The thing is, despite being strongly disparaged, the watches exhibiting a pleasing degradation continue to fetch high premiums over watches with a similar degree, but not quality, of degradation.

    So first I conclude that there are several people who like them, and second that they have deep pockets.

    I notice that degradation per se is not a guarantee of a high price. Clearly the buyers need to see a certain but definite charm. Some, while exhibiting the same degree of decay, do so in an unattractive manner. It is this difference that I find so interesting, and that the "triple C" group do not see at all.

    I note also that this phenomena, the high value placed on degradation, is compared to Rolex. So far, I am not so sure it is the same. In Rolex, the brown dials are very much more than their "CCC" counterparts. With speedmasters, imagine how much a NOS 2998-1 might fetch? I would say there are many bidders up to $25,000, and i believe is worth more than this watch - a lot more. It is after all much rarer. There are several on this forum who have shown similar decayed watches, but only one who has shown a NOS.

    A NOS speedmaster is unwearable. (Certainly for me, I am active and inadvertently careless on occasion.) I still want one, and would pay more than a brown dialed one.

    A watch with an already marked case is easy to wear without worry. And for me, if the dial is attractive, I find myself looking at it endlessly.

    My wife wants to test me for OCD
     
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  8. JM251 Sep 30, 2014

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    These luxury item auctions are the perfect venue for daddy warbucks pissing contests. These guys love to flaunt their buying prowess to the point where in the heat of the moment it's more about the win then the actual goods.
     
  9. Emeister Donut-eatin desk-divin wannabe-astronaut fat dude Sep 30, 2014

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    Some very interesting and considered points you make there Spacefruit.
    Especially as you have stated that you were a strong bidder on this watch.

    I hope "we" aren't scaring off these "deep pocketed lovers of degradation" with our swift judgement of auctions like these.
    It would certainly be interesting to hear opinions and bidding motivation from these buyers.

    I wonder if they do frequent here or if they are getting "investment advice" from elsewhere.
     
  10. Privateday7 quotes Miss Universe Sep 30, 2014

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    We have vintage Rolex collector bunch in Jakarta, whom one is a good friend of mine. They now feel that Newman's, Subs and early GMTs are overpriced for their liking. Now they are eyeing early Speedies (2915 and 2998). Enough said.

    This is picture of their last 6 persons gtg. IMG-20140923-WA0037.jpg
     
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  11. citizenrich Metal Mixer! Oct 1, 2014

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    The jig is up, fellas.

    I was casually watching CNBC the other day and some stock jockey (I actually know the guy) was recommending that people of means invest 10% of their assets in collectibles like fine art and vintage watches.

    When stock hustlers are telling people to buy watches (and not stocks) you know there's a lot of buzz going on.
     
  12. Habitant Oct 1, 2014

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    These examples show different lighting, and consequent variations in colour rendering. The missing marks on the bezel could be, relatively speaking, 'innocent' and a result of indifferent photography, rather than any great plan on their part. Not that I'm trying to come to their defence… but auction houses often have in house guys, under tremendous time pressure. Or they outsource the work on a price/piece basis and believe me, they don't pay much.

    While they should be using and paying for top photography, they're more concerned with their own ROI; it's not Watch Time magazine, selling watch porn to enthusiasts, it's a more brutal world.

    With respect, I don't think these images prove your point, but they do highlight the journey of the watch up and down the economic ladder. Interesting stuff.

     
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  13. citizenrich Metal Mixer! Oct 1, 2014

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    I'm not a photographer so I have no idea how the knurling on the bezel just magically disappears, reappears and then disappears.

    More interesting to me is that the least visually appealing photo (It's my taste and I'm entitled to it) fetched the highest price by a mile. That has to mean something.


     
  14. Habitant Oct 1, 2014

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    The middle bezel seems to have been enhanced in the pictures here, but a small change in angle and lighting could just as easily make the other two appear to fall away. In short, we are not looking at great photography here, and my point was simply that it doesn't prove retouching, just mildly incompetent work. I'd have to see the actual watch to have an opinion, myself.

    The disappearing bezel edges in the other shots appear to be nothing more than the lug highlights blowing out the knurling. Like I say, we'd really have to see the watch to know, the photography in all three is nothing special. Done to a price, not to a standard, or as they say in the business nowadays it's 'good enough.'

    That one picture is linked to a higher price is more coincidental than evidence of the influence of these particular picture on the buyers in the room. We've all seen saleroom madness (…and then there's shill bidding…) and the internet has, if anything, fuelled this madness.
     
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  15. Habitant Oct 1, 2014

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    We all know that watches (at least that's what we tell The Other Person in our lives…I'm thinking about the bank manager, of course) are a great investment, that's why we're here! :)
     
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  16. Event horizon faux seller of watches and complete knobhead Oct 1, 2014

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    I think the speedy looks really tired. In that condition I would only wear it for sentimental reasons.
    There's patina and there's just plain worn out. I wouldn't call the dial tropical I would term this sun bleached.
     
  17. FabCo Oct 1, 2014

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    I am the "someone" :)...
    I was indeed asking the community here what they thought of this particular example, a couple of weeks before the auction.
    I was actually looking at it as my first forray into Speedmasters, being a Vintage Rolex collector for quite some time already.
    I finally settled for a tropical 145.022 in very nice condition from KRLYUZH instead and am very glad I did so.
    Obviously not the same ballpark as this one, but when I see the non-catalog picture of the 2998, it looks pretty much beaten up to me.
    I agree (for being one of them) that Rolex tropical junkies are pushing prices to new heights on rare tropical Speedmaster references.
    And there is still quite a margin, when you see that lot 86 in this very same auction (Rolex Daytona 6263 with tropical chocolate dial) went for more than 87k$ including buyers premium...
    Then again, I completely agree with MSNWatch, condition, condition, condition, being Vintage Rolex or Vintage Omega.
    I'd rather settle for a perfect 145.022 than for a beaten up 2998-2
     
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  18. michael e Still learning. Oct 1, 2014

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  19. citizenrich Metal Mixer! Oct 1, 2014

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    I realize it's all produced but Rick Harrison bought one of these for like 8 grand off some guy who wanted to buy a dirt bike with his dads watch money. Awesome display of white trash right there! As I recall, it was a full set (sans original bracelet).

    I hope I didn't offend anyone with my white trash comment but com'on! ...a dirt bike? Lolzzz. Didn't someone here buy a watch off a kid who wanted a dirt bike as well?

    reminds me of that old Lancashire proverb: "Clogs to clogs on 3 generations"

    signed,

    citizen white trash
     
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  20. MSNWatch Vintage Omega Aficionado Staff Member Oct 1, 2014

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