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Zenith Compur cal. 146, but year and model?Help!!

fabcat72
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Hi to everybody!
Another watch in heritage from my grandfather (I've alredy posted about a vintage 18k gold omega semaster)
I'm attaching some pitcture becouse I would like to know something more about this watch.
The caliber il 146 and the style looks like when Zenith was prducing the Compur with 100% Universal Geneve style.

I need the community Help!
I would like to know approx the Year, the model(A####...... ) and if it its a valid (i.e. rare) watch

The watch has been in a drowber for about 40 years, it is working and quite sharp....

Thanks!!
Fabrizio from Rome Italy
 
zenith_front.jpeg zenith.jpeg
CaptainWinsor
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Can we see a picture of case back and inside. The minute and hour hands seem short for that dial
 
fabcat72
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CaptainWinsor CaptainWinsor
Can we see a picture of case back and inside. The minute and hour hands seem short for that dial

Here it is the last number seems to be a 5.
 
zenith_inside.jpeg
fabcat72
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Syrte Syrte
This also applies to non Omega watches:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/vintage-omega-posting-guide.383/

Not sure about your dial but this chrono is a super cool looking watch.

Sorry I didn't sse these guidlines, I but I should...

In addition to what I already wrote opening the topic I can add that my grandfather (1913 class) had lot of professional tools to deal with any type of watches ,
and I wouldn't be surprised if he did any repairs or replacements.
The watch has been stored in a drawer for maybe 30 40 years and no service has been done since that time.

If I charge it can run fom abou 30 hour keeping the time....

I can also upload a better picture
 
zenith2.jpeg
CaptainWinsor
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fabcat72 fabcat72
Sorry I didn't sse these guidlines, I but I should...

In addition to what I already wrote opening the topic I can add that my grandfather (1913 class) had lot of professional tools to deal with any type of watches ,
and I wouldn't be surprised if he did any repairs or replacements.
The watch has been stored in a drawer for maybe 30 40 years and no service has been done since that time.

If I charge it can run fom abou 30 hour keeping the time....

I can also upload a better picture

redialed
 
Mark020
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Mark020 Mark020
Probably a 610.8xx serial and reference 5168. Year 1936. Diameter 34.5 mm? Indeed a redial.
So: what do I win?
 
fabcat72
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Ok Ok, 🙁

The harsh reality is hard to accept.
so my three gold watches left by my grandfather are all a mess.
OMEGA Seamaster (https://omegaforums.net/threads/is-my-grandfather-seamaster-a-patchwork.157244/)
IWC (https://omegaforums.net/threads/iwc-cal-89-solid-gold-help.163038/#post-2226273)
and this Zenit Compur.

You say this is reprinted because as Mark020 says the model 5168 originally had another dial, ok.
What if it was the original dial but from another reference?

and then, in general, all three are watches which, if in good condition, could have a value between 2 and 3.5k.
How much does having the dials reprinted reduce the value? This, as a general questionI? do they become garbage?

Thank you all for your immediate important contribution
 
watchyouwant
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Vintage Watches : refinished dials = up to 40% plus value destruction.
 
Mark020
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fabcat72 fabcat72
What if it was the original dial but from another reference?
Well that certainly happened but I don't think your dial is original UG/Zenith anyway. Most likely these watches were sold with a variety of dials but your hands suggest a dial similar to the Japanese one I posted
 
fabcat72
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Mark020 Mark020
Well that certainly happened but I don't think your dial is original UG/Zenith anyway. Most likely these watches were sold with a variety of dials but your hands suggest a dial similar to the Japanese one I posted
ok thanks
 
Syrte
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They’re not a mess, they’re nice old watches which your grand’ pa used and maintained dutifully, which in those days often meant dials were refinished.
it’s not as if he sat there wondering what collectors might care about fifty or 70 years later.

I actually think you’re very lucky with those dials because I find them done quite well. For example the edges of the subdials on this chronograph are very sharp and clean, instead of being overrun with paint.

Incidentally, I too have a gold watch from my grand father and the dial is repainted on it too. Supposedly it had never been worn but clearly it must have been. But the watch is a much more boring style, IMO, and I would gladly wear watches like your grand fathers’.
 
Larry S
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fabcat72 fabcat72
Ok Ok, 🙁

The harsh reality is hard to accept.
so my three gold watches left by my grandfather are all a mess.
OMEGA Seamaster (https://omegaforums.net/threads/is-my-grandfather-seamaster-a-patchwork.157244/)
IWC (https://omegaforums.net/threads/iwc-cal-89-solid-gold-help.163038/#post-2226273)
and this Zenit Compur.

You say this is reprinted because as Mark020 says the model 5168 originally had another dial, ok.
What if it was the original dial but from another reference?

and then, in general, all three are watches which, if in good condition, could have a value between 2 and 3.5k.
How much does having the dials reprinted reduce the value? This, as a general questionI? do they become garbage?

Thank you all for your immediate important contribution
It’s the quality of the printing, spacing etc….It is presentable but it’s redone. Watches were expensive, if a dial got trashed, many owners had it redone. No one cared about what collectors in 2023 would think.
Edited:
 
bgrisso
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You've already gotten all the main info, but a little more detail on this. It is a Jeanneret case (case maker with hammerhead 166 stamp, but hard to see on your inside caseback). Although there are many different cases from this casemaker, this particular one is the "classic" Jeanneret case. This can be worth a premium if sharp, but not surprisingly, and this is common from regular use, this case is very soft. I will post an example of a sharp case so you can see the difference.

P1010994_adj.jpg


Relative to the dial, people are not saying yours should have the exact dial as posted above by Mark. The case reference (5168) does not dictate the case/dial combination, only the case. So it is not possible to know precisely what dial your watch came with. However it is unlikely to be the exact one posted above by Mark (that is just an example) because that one has applied hour markers, and yours does not. When dials were refinished, it is typically the exact same dial that is reprinted and reused, not a new dial, (this way you know the dial will fit properly). It is unlikely to have applied markers removed (and the holes filled) on a reprint. I will post an example of two typical dials from this time period (case serial 6XXXXX) which do not have applied hour markers.

_F6F0359_adj.JPG


Even though we cannot know for sure what your dial looked like originally, as Mark said, we have clues from the hand style and the case serial (time period). You can see the two UG I posted have similar hand to yours, while the gold cased Compur earlier above has stick hands (thinner) and dial which is more like your reprint. This is from a later time period (case serial 7XXXXX).
The running seconds hand on your watch is replaced with a non original.
All of this together (soft case, dial reprint, some wrong hands) means there is little financial value to collectors. But I hope it does not significantly reduce your enjoyment of the watch. It is getting close to 100 years old ! Most families have no watches of any kind that are passed along from generation. It is very rare to have watches of any interest passed along, and very very rare that any of those are still in good original condition, with significant financial value. That would be like winning the lottery. But your watches are still like winning the lottery, just not the top prize.
 
Larry S
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Indeed. It is a fine old chronograph. You may also rest assured that we collectively have seen some truly awful redials in our tenure in these forums. Your watch has a decent redial and only we fussy collectors are going to notice the issues. This is a fine old chronograph that looks great and has a family provenance. Get it serviced and wear it. Thats what watches are for.
 
fabcat72
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bgrisso bgrisso
You've already gotten all the main info, but a little more detail on this. It is a Jeanneret case (case maker with hammerhead 166 stamp, but hard to see on your inside caseback). Although there are many different cases from this casemaker, this particular one is the "classic" Jeanneret case. This can be worth a premium if sharp, but not surprisingly, and this is common from regular use, this case is very soft. I will post an example of a sharp case so you can see the difference.

P1010994_adj.jpg


Relative to the dial, people are not saying yours should have the exact dial as posted above by Mark. The case reference (5168) does not dictate the case/dial combination, only the case. So it is not possible to know precisely what dial your watch came with. However it is unlikely to be the exact one posted above by Mark (that is just an example) because that one has applied hour markers, and yours does not. When dials were refinished, it is typically the exact same dial that is reprinted and reused, not a new dial, (this way you know the dial will fit properly). It is unlikely to have applied markers removed (and the holes filled) on a reprint. I will post an example of two typical dials from this time period (case serial 6XXXXX) which do not have applied hour markers.

_F6F0359_adj.JPG


Even though we cannot know for sure what your dial looked like originally, as Mark said, we have clues from the hand style and the case serial (time period). You can see the two UG I posted have similar hand to yours, while the gold cased Compur earlier above has stick hands (thinner) and dial which is more like your reprint. This is from a later time period (case serial 7XXXXX).
The running seconds hand on your watch is replaced with a non original.
All of this together (soft case, dial reprint, some wrong hands) means there is little financial value to collectors. But I hope it does not significantly reduce your enjoyment of the watch. It is getting close to 100 years old ! Most families have no watches of any kind that are passed along from generation. It is very rare to have watches of any interest passed along, and very very rare that any of those are still in good original condition, with significant financial value. That would be like winning the lottery. But your watches are still like winning the lottery, just not the top prize.
Yes Yes!!!
I like this positive point of view..

Apparently Universal G. with cal 146 were in a earlier phase of Zenith production, this probably why my repainted dial looks similar to them more than to zenith versions, earlier dial had less applied stuff maybe.
More.... looks that mine is a reprint of a Blue and Red dial then...., going to a monochrome option was easier and cheaper, this is probably what happened....

I've just got a quatation for a basic service on this watch 400€ and 300€ for the IWC (cal 89).
I will probabli go for it...
 
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