Yet another sign of the apocalypse

josiahg52 · Mar 18, 2026

Tony C.
Your expertise is appreciated. While tangential, what are your current views on the evolution of EVs? Do you see any breakthrough battery technologies on the near horizon?

From a battery standpoint, modern EVs are pretty impressive, but they’re also a very complex solution.

Lithium batteries give you the energy density needed to make EVs practical, but they come with tighter thermal limits and require a lot of support systems—cooling, monitoring, and cell balancing across thousands of cells. That’s necessary because once you scale up to large packs, it’s less about whether a cell fails and more about preventing that failure from propagating.

Those failure modes, especially when they can lead to destructive outcomes, aren’t always fully considered in practical discussions, but they do place real constraints on how these systems are designed and used. The required support systems add weight, introduce additional energy overhead, and increase overall system complexity, all of which can work against efficiency to some degree.

It’s also worth noting this isn’t unique to EVs. Modern vehicles in general have become more complex—ICE vehicles included. They have more electronics, more systems, more features, and more weight than ever before. That all adds cost both upfront and over time, and it can work against efficiency as well.
So some of these tradeoffs—complexity, cost, and efficiency—are really part of a broader trend in vehicle design, not just something specific to electric vehicles.

Where EVs work really well is in predictable use cases—shorter, defined routes where you can charge overnight at a lower, less stressful rate. That’s why they make a lot of sense for delivery fleets, municipal vehicles, and similar applications.

Where things get harder is with variability. Personally owned vehicles don’t always follow a predictable pattern, and long-distance travel still favors liquid fuels simply because of energy density and quick refueling.
That’s also why I think hybrid systems are a very practical middle ground right now. You can take advantage of electric drive where it helps, without needing extremely large battery packs or depending entirely on charging infrastructure.

From an adoption standpoint, I do think trying to mandate EV use in every situation can create frustration and tends to highlight where the technology isn’t the best fit yet. That can actually slow broader acceptance rather than help it. It usually works better when a technology is adopted where it clearly performs well and expands from there.

So overall, the technology is solid and improving, but like any large battery system, it comes down to use case. It works very well in some applications, and less well in others.

-Josiah

Dan S · Mar 19, 2026

Interesting fact I learned today. My city has an ordinance against installation of standby NG generals, e.g. Generac.

So that’s off the table, basically just leaving a portable generator option.

Archer · Mar 19, 2026

Dan S
Interesting fact I learned today. My city has an ordinance against installation of standby NG generals, e.g. Generac.

So that’s off the table, basically just leaving a portable generator option.

That is strange. I wonder what the justification for such an ordinance is?

It can't be for noise, because whenever the power is out here for any length of time, the gas (petrol) powered generators all drown out the natural gas powered units.

140dave · Mar 19, 2026

I use a portable dual fuel and the setup works well for us. Gas was a no-go because of storage, propane is much easier to keep for backup. Nat gas is nice but in an earthquake or wildfire chances are good the nat gas will be shut off.

We have a separate panel to plug the generator into that controls 80% of our fuses and we live without a few when needed. Wheel it over to the panel, start it up and plug it in. Flip a few breakers and you’re up and running. Not as seamless as the built in generac systems but easy and for the few times a year it’s needed it works for us.

I’m out of town atm so can’t add pics or models but can add more info in a few days if wanted.

Dan S · Mar 19, 2026

Archer
That is strange. I wonder what the justification for such an ordinance is?

It can't be for noise, because whenever the power is out here for any length of time, the gas (petrol) powered generators all drown out the natural gas powered units.

There is a restriction on all new NG appliances in residential construction as part of an electrification/energy-conservation initiative.

Dan S · Mar 20, 2026

Dan S
There is a restriction on all new NG appliances in residential construction as part of an electrification/energy-conservation initiative.

For better or for worse, we are seeing more and more cities passing this type of energy efficiency/electrification ordinances. All new construction and any "major" modifications are not allowed to use fossil fuels. Also, new construction and major remodels/additions are required to meet certain energy efficiency scores, which requires upgrades for remodels/additions. The larger the residence, the lower the scores that needs to be met.

We have a second home in a mountain community, and a similar ordinance was passed by the town council there. Interestingly, there was a lot of grumbling about that ordinance, so we were very aware of it. However, at our primary residence, this ordinance passed in 2024 without much fanfare, and I wasn't even aware of the details. I suspect it will increase the number of people who try to avoid permitting projects. But installation of a NG generator isn't something you could hide. I wouldn't do that anyway.

Archer · Mar 20, 2026

Dan S
However, at our primary residence, this ordinance passed in 2024 without much fanfare, and I wasn't even aware of the details.

You know it's funny that often the level of government that has most direct impact on your daily life is the one we typically pay the least attention to - the local municipal level.

During our struggles with the municipality during the construction of the new subdivision behind us, we argued at length with them about the need for existing residences like ours, to be required to connect to the new sanitary sewers they installed, and abandon our septic systems. I already had to pay $12.5k for the "stub" to my property line, and it was going to be more than that again to replumb from the septic tanks out back to the new connection out front. It would require digging up the basement floor, hydrovac from the stub to the front of the house, digging up the front gardens, etc.

Note that some people had recently spent $40k to replace their septic systems and we were initially being told that we would have to abandon a perfectly working asset for no real reason. Well there is a reason - wastewater charges based on water consumption. They need that revenue to cover the operating expenses of the new waste treatment plant.

We ended up in a compromise - we would get our system inspected by a certified person every 5 years, and if any repair was needed was large enough to require a building permit, we would have to connect. Otherwise if the system was working as required, it was fine.

Late last year they revised the by-law and while no one was paying attention, placed a 15 year cap on this, so regardless we would have to connect 15 years after the sanitary service became available to us, which is 10 years from now. Condition and effectiveness of the septic system doesn't matter.

The fight begins anew, and it's one I do not intend to lose!

Dan S · Mar 20, 2026

Archer
The fight begins anew, and it's one I do not intend to lose!

I finally figured out what the Jolly Roger emoji is for.

KAP · Mar 21, 2026

Not so helpful now with this scenario being discussed, but something to keep in mind for the future. EVs increasingly are moving toward bidirectional charging capabilities as a standard, no-cost feature. For example, GM has 12 EVs currently supporting bidirectional vehicle-to-home charging. Kia, VW, Mitsubishi, Nissan also have bidirectional vehicle to house or grid capable models and BMW just announced its Neue Klasse i3 will have this capability. These types of vehicles can automatically provide electricity to your home during grid outages and maintain power for several days. These can also reduce electricity costs during high-rate periods and can be Integrated with solar systems.

Dan S · Mar 21, 2026

KAP
Not so helpful now with this scenario being discussed, but something to keep in mind for the future. EVs increasingly are moving toward bidirectional charging capabilities as a standard, no-cost feature. For example, GM has 12 EVs currently supporting bidirectional vehicle-to-home charging. Kia, VW, Mitsubishi, Nissan also have bidirectional vehicle to house or grid capable models and BMW just announced its Neue Klasse i3 will have this capability. These types of vehicles can automatically provide electricity to your home during grid outages and maintain power for several days. These can also reduce electricity costs during high-rate periods and can be Integrated with solar systems.

Yep, my neighbor was saying that his EVs have roughly 70 kW-h of capacity each, and they have two vehicles. If they are conservative with their energy usage, it can last them at least a couple of days.

Larry S · Mar 21, 2026

Archer
You know it's funny that often the level of government that has most direct impact on your daily life is the one we typically pay the least attention to - the local municipal level.

During our struggles with the municipality during the construction of the new subdivision behind us, we argued at length with them about the need for existing residences like ours, to be required to connect to the new sanitary sewers they installed, and abandon our septic systems. I already had to pay $12.5k for the "stub" to my property line, and it was going to be more than that again to replumb from the septic tanks out back to the new connection out front. It would require digging up the basement floor, hydrovac from the stub to the front of the house, digging up the front gardens, etc.

Note that some people had recently spent $40k to replace their septic systems and we were initially being told that we would have to abandon a perfectly working asset for no real reason. Well there is a reason - wastewater charges based on water consumption. They need that revenue to cover the operating expenses of the new waste treatment plant.

We ended up in a compromise - we would get our system inspected by a certified person every 5 years, and if any repair was needed was large enough to require a building permit, we would have to connect. Otherwise if the system was working as required, it was fine.

Late last year they revised the by-law and while no one was paying attention, placed a 15 year cap on this, so regardless we would have to connect 15 years after the sanitary service became available to us, which is 10 years from now. Condition and effectiveness of the septic system doesn't matter.

The fight begins anew, and it's one I do not intend to lose!

Years ago we lived on a large private lake in NW NJ. I was on the team that drafted and approved a septic ordinance required an annual inspection and operating license. We were spending millions on keeping the lake alive in the face of green lawns, geese and failing septic. Sewers were not an option due to the need to blast granite. “Trust us” was the opposition cry. It passed by three votes. That year I lost count of the excavators all over the community after the bill passed. As it turned out homeowners could be “trusted” not to understand or maintain their systems.

Archer · Mar 21, 2026

Larry S
Years ago we lived on a large private lake in NW NJ. I was on the team that drafted and approved a septic ordinance required an annual inspection and operating license. We were spending millions on keeping the lake alive in the face of green lawns, geese and failing septic. Sewers were not an option due to the need to blast granite. “Trust us” was the opposition cry. It passed by three votes. That year I lost count of the excavators all over the community after the bill passed. As it turned out homeowners could be “trusted” not to understand or maintain their systems.

That brings up a great point in the debate I'm having with the municipality. As we agreed, we still have to have our systems inspected by a certified installer every 5 years. I personally have no issues with that. I've lived the majority of my life in homes with septic systems (all but about 8 years of my life). But many people who move here from the city don't understand that you can't use unlimited water when you have a septic system.

We have been here for 30 years in June, and over that time we have seen many systems replaced in our neighbourhood. In fact when we first moved in I asked the previous owners when they last had the tank pumped, and they said "Never, because you never need to...it takes care of itself!" The house was 7 years old when we bought it, and the first thing I did after we moved in was to get it pumped - solids were just about to start going out to the weeping tile, so I caught it in time.

Being in a rural township, the vast majority of residents are on septic, but curiously the only people who are required to have this inspection every 5 years are those who have the ability to hook up to a sanitary sewer...🤔 If there is no sanitary sewer connection available to you, they apparently do not care if your system is working properly or not. This is clearly just a means to force people to connect and has nothing to do with protecting the environment. I have already suggested that the inspection should apply to everyone with a septic a system in the township, and not just to those who can connect.

BTW I was informed last night that a request has been made by our councillor to reopen the by-law. It's on.

Tony C. · Mar 21, 2026

josiahg52
It’s also worth noting this isn’t unique to EVs. Modern vehicles in general have become more complex—ICE vehicles included. They have more electronics, more systems, more features, and more weight than ever before. That all adds cost both upfront and over time, and it can work against efficiency as well.

Thank you. I appreciate your detailed reply. What you note in the above excerpt is why I drive a 2010 Audi A3, and have no interest in "upgrading" to anything newer. 😀

Larry S · Mar 21, 2026

Archer
That brings up a great point in the debate I'm having with the municipality. As we agreed, we still have to have our systems inspected by a certified installer every 5 years. I personally have no issues with that. I've lived the majority of my life in homes with septic systems (all but about 8 years of my life). But many people who move here from the city don't understand that you can't use unlimited water when you have a septic system.

We have been here for 30 years in June, and over that time we have seen many systems replaced in our neighbourhood. In fact when we first moved in I asked the previous owners when they last had the tank pumped, and they said "Never, because you never need to...it takes care of itself!" The house was 7 years old when we bought it, and the first thing I did after we moved in was to get it pumped - solids were just about to start going out to the weeping tile, so I caught it in time.

Being in a rural township, the vast majority of residents are on septic, but curiously the only people who are required to have this inspection every 5 years are those who have the ability to hook up to a sanitary sewer...🤔 If there is no sanitary sewer connection available to you, they apparently do not care if your system is working properly or not. This is clearly just a means to force people to connect and has nothing to do with protecting the environment. I have already suggested that the inspection should apply to everyone with a septic a system in the township, and not just to those who can connect.

BTW I was informed last night that a request has been made by our councillor to reopen the by-law. It's on.]

Most definitely a money grab. That said the ordnance worked and continues to work from what I hear.

josiahg52 · Mar 21, 2026

Tony C.
Thank you. I appreciate your detailed reply. What you note in the above excerpt is why I drive a 2010 Audi A3, and have no interest in "upgrading" to anything newer. 😀

My newest is a 2018 Ram that I lucked into and I'm already experiencing that complication. I wanted a truck and found this one at a great price in 2020 with 4k miles on it. Fortunately, it's a basic model without a lot of the fancy gadgets but even the basic operating systems are going to be, and have been, an issue, but it's not weighed down by leather, carpet, an entertainment system, two extra (for me) doors and seats, etc. I'd have chosen manual windows and door locks, if I had the choice.

I'm currently involved in specifying a very large battery system for a vehicle and so the benefits and limitations of current EV technology is very familiar to me.

Yet another sign of the apocalypse

josiahg52

Dan S

Archer

140dave

Dan S

Dan S

Archer

Dan S

KAP

Dan S

Larry S

Archer

Tony C.

Larry S

josiahg52

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