Hi, all - Just recently bought my first vintage watch, an Omega Geneve ref. 166. It's an automatic watch, and the second hand doesn't stop when pulling out the crown to set the time. The first time I attempted to set the time, I turned the crown away from me, and I could feel some resistance and saw the second hand momentarily stop. I stopped, and set the time in the opposite direction.

I've read online about setting the time on automatic watches, and many threads seem to suggest that the time can be set by turning the crown in either direction. That's clearly not the case with this watch. Is that only on newer watches? Is it only if the second hand stops when the crown is pulled out? Hoping I didn't cause any damage - and thanks for the advice!

 

I was always advised the it was better for the movement to adjust the hands in a clockwise direction.

 

Most of these vintage watches do not hack when you simply pull the crown out. This function is provided usually by a hack lever of some type that moves with the sliding pinion in the setting parts, and touches the rim of the balance wheel to stop the watch.

In watches that don't have this feature, if the cannon pinion is tight enough, you can perform what collectors on various forums call a "pseudo-hack" by pulling the crown out and turning the hands backwards slightly. This may stop the watch depending on how tight the cannon pinion is and how much wind is on the mainspring. The watch is more likely to stop when the spring is wound down than when it is fully wound.

Stopping the seconds hand won't damage the watch, but I would advise against making the watch run backwards if the cannon pinion is tight enough to do so. Also turning the hands backwards in time does not create any problems for most watches.

Cheers, Al

 

"Also turning the hands backwards in time does not create any problems for most watches."

Except for maybe tuning fork watches? i had one turned back in time and it stopped working after that. Noob mistake.

 

"Except for maybe tuning fork watches? i had one turned back in time and it stopped working after that. Noob mistake."

This is a new one to me.

 

It is very important to not back set a tuning fork watch. Especially when the service history is unknown. They have a slip clutch that has to be lubricated. Without lubrication the force sometimes gets to high and the very tiny tooth of the index wheel get shaved off the wheel when setting it backwards. When setting it forward the seconds hand will move forward as well and the index wheel slips under the index and pawl finger. If this happens, it's time for service.

For any other mechanical watch it does not really matter. Nothing will be damaged.

 

Always winding forward is the advice every 12 year old kid gets when receiving his/her first wristwatch...

 

I have always assumed that winding forwards is the correct way - just feels 'right' somehow.

 

That's why I said "most watches"...

 

I have serviced Accutron watches since 1963. I have collection of 15 of them. I guess maybe I have been lucky, but I have never had a problem resulting from turning Accutron hands sdrawkcab . Once in a while on various message boards, the topic of "loose" Accutron 214 cannon pinions will arise. These were specifically produced to be looser than most watches, when they were made. I suspect damage resulting from setting hands sdrawkcab on a 214 might be on a watch where the cannon pinion has been tightened. The 218 has a brake and a spring loaded hack lever on the 4th wheel hub which activates when the stem is pulled into a setting position. This prevents damage when setting the hands sdrawkcab . If you are unsure about a tuning fork watch, perhaps don't set the hands sdrawkcab, just in case.

 

The topic of shaved index wheels is mainly a problem of the ESA movements, not Bulova. Only the early 214 movements had the friction in the canon pinion. Due to problems with the amount of friction they changed the design to a spring loaded slip clutch (integrated into the center wheel).



For every tuning fork movement: If the friction is to high, what ever the reason is, the index mechanism will be damaged and the parts are becoming rare these days. This is the reason why I never set a tuning fork watch backwards.

 

For most* mechanical watches I would set the time in the direction that is closest, meaning it's better to turn 1 hour backwards than 11 hours forward. This results in less wear on the cannon pinion.

 

Thanks for the discussion! This particular watch's second hand does indeed stop if I turn the crown clockwise, to set the time backward. I've noticed it runs a little fast, maybe a minute over 24 hours, so I could see myself regularly needing to set a back a bit. Based on Archer's comment, is that going to cause a problem? That watch doesn't seem to stop if I do this, as the second hand starts moving again as soon as I stop rotating the crown. (Sorry to say I don't know anything at all about cannon pinions!)

 

If it's running a minute fast every day, it likely needs to be serviced...

 

Just got my C-cased cal 564 back from servicing... even when fully winded, the second hand jumps backward 5 second when I turn hands backward... the second hands does not stop, just jump 5 seconds... I call back the watch maker who will fix it next week.

@Archer is it a long operation to adjust it?

thanks once again for your help!

 

Let me see if I understand what you are saying, when you pull the stem to set the time, the second hand moves back a few seconds if you turn the crown to move the hands counter clockwise. The minute hand does not come in contact with the second hand, correct? When you move the hands forward, this doesn't happen.

I'm sure Al will have the technical terms in line but I think it's ok. Many of my watches back up a few seconds when I set the time counter clockwise. Some people use this as their hacking mechanism to perfectly line up the seconds hand.

edit: now that I think about it, if it is always EXACTLY 5 sec, there might be some wear on the wheel. hmmm.

 

This is the issue archer explained in this topic, the cannon pinion must be too tight, way too tight because it happens even when fully winded.

Just want to know how long it may take to fix it

 

In addition to my previous question, while waiting to get it fix next week, is there a risk for the mouvement as long as I don’t adjust time backward?

thanks for your help

 

I have a 2019 Moonwatch and the Speedy has no Hack either but Omega actually recommend a “Forced” hack by holding the crown back a little to stop the second hand and set seconds accurately. It’s actually in the owners manual.
I do the same with my 145.029 vintage 1970 and other various vintage watches I have and never encountered any problems/issues. As with everything just take care and don’t be hand fisted.

 

As @Archer says, having the second hand stopped is not an issue, but with mine, the second hand goes backward, which may cause an issue