Wimbledon 2022

Archer · Jul 11, 2022

Deafboy
I don't think it was that even. In sets 2 and 3 Kyrgios was quite erratic in his playing. Several shots were hit out of pure anger and frustration; some of those landed in, most out. He was better composed in the 4th set and kept serve but both players knew that Djokovic, leading 2 sets to 1, had the upper hand going into the tie-breaker.

It's easy to get distracted from the tennis when NK plays, but the stats don't really agree that it was terribly one sided. Set 2 was very competitive (NK generated 4 break point chances), and set 3 and 4 were where Nick's unforced error counts really jumped up. Winners outpaced unforced errors for both players in all sets, and overall by very wide margins - that's high quality tennis. There were only 3 breaks of serve in the entire match.

Of course ND won, but this was very competitive by all accounts (well maybe except you 😀)

Deafboy · Jul 11, 2022

Archer
It's easy to get distracted from the tennis when NK plays, but the stats don't really agree that it was terribly one sided.

Maybe my impression derives from the shortened version of the match I saw on ABC, where set 2 was truncated by several games.

The stats give an overview but sometimes doesn't reveal the whole story. I was very impressed of the consitent depth of Djokovic's groundstrokes. Also Djokovic's strokes when Kyrgios was at the net, forcing difficult half volleys from the latter. These details win points and unnerve an opponent but don't necessarely correlate to "winners" or "unforced errors" in the stats.

I thought Kyrgios played really well the first set, and showed his brillant shotmaking. Djokovic upped his game somewhat in set 2 which offered more competition to Kyrgios' game. I was pleasently surprised to see Kyrgios recomposed for the 4th set. It was a good, interesting match overall with players having very different styles.

Archer · Jul 11, 2022

Deafboy
Maybe my impression derives from the shortened version of the match I saw on ABC, where set 2 was truncated by several games.

The stats give an overview but sometimes doesn't reveal the whole story. I was very impressed of the consitent depth of Djokovic's groundstrokes. Also Djokovic's strokes when Kyrgios was at the net, forcing difficult half volleys from the latter. These details win points and unnerve an opponent but don't necessarely correlate to "winners" or "unforced errors" in the stats.

I thought Kyrgios played really well the first set, and showed his brillant shotmaking. Djokovic upped his game somewhat in set 2 which offered more competition to Kyrgios' game. I was pleasently surprised to see Kyrgios recomposed for the 4th set. It was a good, interesting match overall with players having very different styles.

I agree that stats don't always show the true competitiveness of the match. The 2019 final between Roger and ND being a prime example, as Roger's stats were higher in almost every way as you can see here:

Roger won more points, more games, and still lost the match - the oddity of tennis scoring on display.

But in this case they really do reflect the match very well. The final above was considered a classic, and of very high level, so let's look at match stats for this year:

Many of NK stats here are better than either of the finalists in 2019. ND played insanely high level tennis in yesterday's match, and he had to to win it. We can agree to disagree, but I'll leave you with Johnny Mac's impression of the match:

"The level of tennis it took Novak to win that. I can’t think of a higher level tennis."

Dgercp · Jul 11, 2022

Personally I thought it was a tight and interesting match. If 4th set tiebreaker went the other way, 5th set could have been epic. Kyrgios's serve was insane and he is extremely athletic. His composure on the court was painful to watch at times but he got his act together in the 4th set. The guy is so intense and needs to learn from Rafa how to be intense internally but control it externally. Regarding ND, he has done some really dumb things in the past, but he has also done some really good things for tennis and I respect him more than ever. I even like him now.

And as an aside, let me share my feelings on the GOAT debate. For me, all three are the GOATS. I think that picking one GOAT from among Novak, Rafa and Roger is fun, but to me all three are on equal footing and always will be no matter what happens in the future. Their comparative stats are remarkably similar and if one or the other has a couple more major wins, for me that is meaningless. The most amazing thing is that over these 20 or so years, each has accumulated an insane amount of major wins during a period when they had to play against the other two! It has been a special time for tennis and I am grateful to have witnessed it. One may like Roger's grace, Rafa's grit or Novak's steadiness. One may dislike some of Novak's behavior and decisions.
But, on any given day, any of the three could beat the other two. And they are still doing it!

Archer · Jul 11, 2022

Dgercp
Personally I thought it was a tight and interesting match. If 4th set tiebreaker went the other way, 5th set could have been epic. Kyrgios's serve was insane and he is extremely athletic. His composure on the court was painful to watch at times but he got his act together in the 4th set. The guy is so intense and needs to learn from Rafa how to be intense internally but control it externally. Regarding ND, he has done some really dumb things in the past, but he has also done some really good things for tennis and I respect him more than ever. I even like him now.

And as an aside, let me share my feelings on the GOAT debate. For me, all three are the GOATS. I think that picking one GOAT from among Novak, Rafa and Roger is fun, but to me all three are on equal footing and always will be no matter what happens in the future. Their comparative stats are remarkably similar and if one or the other has a couple more major wins, for me that is meaningless. The most amazing thing is that over these 20 or so years, each has accumulated an insane amount of major wins during a period when they had to play against the other two! It has been a special time for tennis and I am grateful to have witnessed it. One may like Roger's grace, Rafa's grit or Novak's steadiness. One may dislike some of Novak's behavior and decisions.
But, on any given day, any of the three could beat the other two. And they are still doing it!

I agree on almost everything you wrote - the liking ND part I just can't.

The GOAT thing is interesting, and will be debated forever likely. I like watching the intensity of Rafa, but find all his OCD things annoying. However, I appreciate him more as time goes by actually.

ND, well I have little doubt that he will be the stats leader for most things in the end, including majors. I find his brand of tennis the least compelling to watch as pure entertainment. Best return of serve in the game ever IMO, great movement and defending also.

Roger, well what can you say, he makes the game look effortless most of the time. Incredible shot making and creativity, and as a one handed backhand guy, his is a thing of beauty. One thing overlooked by most casual tennis fans is the serve - far from the fastest, he is one of the most precise ever I believe. For those who follow tennis this is no surprise, and even with Isner taking over for Karlovic at the top of the all time ace list, Roger is still 3rd on that list. Closest active player under him is Feliciano Lopez, who is the the late stages of his career, and then down to Sam Querry who is about 2,500 aces behind Roger.

It is an amazing time, and coming to an end. Rafa appears to be thinking hard about retirement, Roger will not be a contender again it looks like (unless he takes up doubles, which I would really love to see him do), and Novak who knows how much longer he will go.

I feel for the potential greats that had to compete through this era, but the younger guys coming up will get their chances.

Dan S · Jul 11, 2022

Archer
Best return of serve in the game ever IMO

I played tennis as a youngster, and Jimmy Connors was my favorite, believe it or not. His all around game didn't compare to those of his contemporary competitors (Borg, Vilas, Lendl, McEnroe), because he really had no serve or much power, but I can't think of anyone who made more of his limited gifts. Just the ultimate grinder, and he managed to win 8 majors. I don't know how he and ND would compare in this category, but I always felt that his return of serve was super-human. And while he could be prickly, he was just an unbelievable competitor, never giving up on any point, game, set, or match for an instant.

Archer · Jul 11, 2022

Dan S
I played tennis as a youngster, and Jimmy Connors was my favorite, believe it or not. His all around game didn't compare to those of his contemporary competitors (Borg, Vilas, Lendl, McEnroe), because he really had no serve or much power, but I can't think of anyone who made more of his limited gifts. Just the ultimate grinder, and he managed to win 8 majors. I don't know how he and ND would compare in this category, but I always felt that his return of serve was super-human. And while he could be prickly, he was just an unbelievable competitor, never giving up on any point, game, set, or match for an instant.

Your mention of Conners reminded me of something. Not sure if you saw the 100 years of center court thing they did this year. It was hosted by someone from the BBC, and Johnny Mac. At one point she made some comment to JM about the great players, and she said "and your good friend, Jimmy Connors."

JM said something like "Well don't you have sense of humour!"...no love lost between those guys. 😀

It's hard to compare across eras, and I think the technology of the racquets, changes in the surfaces, and how the game is much more professional now, make comparing Connors to ND even more difficult. I think it was pretty widely believed that Agassi was the best returner ever, before ND, at least I've heard several player commentators say that. At least that comparison isn't made with wood/aluminum against modern racquets, like you would with Connors, so it's a bit more up to date. But still I think tough to compare as the style of the game changes over time so much...

TimeODanaos · Jul 11, 2022

Archer
Roger will not be a contender again it looks like (unless he takes up doubles, which I would really love to see him do)

Oh, yes! Campaign starts now!

Dan S · Jul 11, 2022

Archer
At least that comparison isn't made with wood/aluminum against modern racquets, like you would with Connors, so it's a bit more up to date.

My memory could be foggy, but I still think of Connors as a fairly early adopter of a metal racket ... Wilson T2000.

Archer · Jul 11, 2022

Dan S
My memory could be foggy, but I still think of Connors as a fairly early adopter of a metal racket ... Wilson T2000.

Yes, he was. Many people were still playing with wood when he was on the aluminum.

Tyro Rex · Jul 11, 2022

Deafboy
I don't think it was that even. In sets 2 and 3 Kyrgios was quite erratic in his playing. Several shots were hit out of pure anger and frustration; some of those landed in, most out. He was better composed in the 4th set and kept serve but both players knew that Djokovic, leading 2 sets to 1, had the upper hand going into the tie-breaker.

Hi Deafboy. I know what you mean, because it often looked worse than just one break in each of the second and third sets. But one of those breaks shouldn’t have even happened except for an erroneous ‘out’ call which, had Nick challenged, would have rightly given him the service hold. Often, Nick’s poorer errors came when he was up 40-15. Still, all the pressure was mostly one way.

Wimbledon 2022

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Dgercp

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Dan S

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