I'm not mixing things. Market price is the price you have to set for the whole market to sell all supply, it is not defined by a single transaction between two parties.
Because scalpers don't need to sell all their supply or they don't have the time pressure to do so, they can try to maximise their gains per each sale.
At [the price of 0] the whole market clears itself. Anything that's not 0, will have a product sit.
I agree that its slimy but I don't see how its worse than paying more on the grey market. Ultimately the end result is the same, it becomes harder for actual collectors to obtain these watches.
If I was really desperate to get a watch, I'd probably just pick whichever route costs the least or provides the most value (e.g. theres already another watch I wanted that I could just bundle).
I tend to agree, but it would really depend upon whether or not I wouldn't mind owning the other watch in question.
When total supply and demand are in Balance that's called price equilibrium. But anytime someone pays the bid or buys the ask (or list) they are setting the most recent market price. You could measure that in the present instance with the last transaction (current market), as an average of all the recent transactions over a fixed amount of time (normal price or average market), or however you want to measure it. But it's accurate to say that a "market" can be made between two individuals.
Here are some definitions of "market price":
1)The price of a commodity in a given market.
2) the current price at which an asset or service can be bought or sold.
Compared to "normal price," which is much closer to what you are talking about. Or maybe total distributive price.
Think about how lobsters, fish, &c are priced, market price is whatever the current daily price is and that can fluctuate greatly, it's not the "total price to sell all lobsters."
And the Market price difference between just the US, UK and Australia is worth a thread of its own.
In Vintage I have seen a $500US watch bought by a UK member and then listed for $500US + the 20%vat and shipping. So thus the Market price has changed in a week
The price at which quantity supplied equals quantity demanded is the market price."
Edit: what you're saying is true in stock markets, where the last transaction determines the new market price. But the same logic does not apply to commodities.
Only assuming that this person is the sole seller of this kind of watch in its specific condition and that he actually manages to sell it for that price. A listing doesn't make a market price.
To come back to the original question... How many Snoopies so far do we know were delivered by ADs?
Well, I think there is a misunderstanding (that isn't particularly important really), but I can't agree with this statement. Sellers aren't going to sell at 0, so the market won't clear itself. There will be no "transactions" as long as no one hits the ask, maybe they'd what you mean here.
And yes, to your statement above, the list price (the amount the seller is asking) is not the market price. list prices vary wildly, too. Neither is the offered price. The market price is the current price at which a buyer and a seller meet for something (or a quantity of something). You stated "assuming...he actually manages to sell it for that price. A listing doesn't make a market price." 100% correct- the price at which the buyer and seller agree upon makes the market price of this transaction.
Going back to this, that's why I'm disagreeing with dsftno's definition that market price is where all supply is cleared out.
At 0, the market cleared itself out. There are no market participants on seller side thus supply equals 0. All sellers either sold or pulled their supply.
Yes, we can all agree on this.
I think I understand where the misunderstanding is coming from at this point. We often casually say we paid "above market" or "below market" when we're discussing things like watches. When you and I are talking about "market price" we literally mean the price a snoopy traded at in a given (specific) market. I think what @dstfno meant was closer to the average market price, or the "fair value" of the snoopy. A local AD is a specific market and may have a snoopy priced at 18k and if someone buys it, they're paying the price in that specific market. But the buyer may very well be paying more than they could purchase a snoopy for in the total market of snoopies on the same day. This total "market price" is probably better represented as the mean, or average, market price (fair value). We could probably find the mean, median, and mode prices in the snoopy market- and use that information to determine fair value pretty solidly.
Whatever else was stated here, I think at this point this is where our misunderstanding stems from. @texasmade @dstfno thank you both for having a civil discussion around this, I really appreciated the exchange.
I think I understand where the misunderstanding is coming from at this point. We often casually say we paid "above market" or "below market" when we're discussing things like watches. When you and I are talking about "market price" we literally mean the price a snoopy traded at in a given (specific) market. I think what @dstfno meant was closer to the average market price, or the "fair value" of the snoopy. A local AD is a specific market and may have a snoopy priced at 18k and if someone buys it, they're paying the price in that specific market. But the buyer may very well be paying more than they could purchase a snoopy for in the total market of snoopies on the same day. This total "market price" is probably better represented as the mean, or average, market price (fair value). We could probably find the mean, median, and mode prices in the snoopy market- and use that information to determine fair value pretty solidly.
Whatever else was stated here, I think at this point this is where our misunderstanding stems from. @texasmade @dstfno thank you both for having a civil discussion around this, I really appreciated the exchange.
Anyhow, I have been at "my" OB recently. I am on the waiting list since the very beginning and had previously bought an Aqua Terra there. He told me that I didn't buy enough to be offered a Snoopy yet, as there are other better customers that they want to serve first ...
I remember a time when we were saying here on OF that in contrast to "that other brand" you can just buy an Omega and dealers aren't playing any games. Well here we are ...
Maybe I'm not explaining it too well but I still think what I said about market price is right, it's literally the first chapter of any economy class and that specific terminology is used. Market price is reached when sellers (trying to sell for as high a price as possible) meet the buyers (seeking to pay as low as possible) and when they manage to clear out all the supply, after which the demand also becomes zero as there are no buyers left to buy at that price, even if there was supply left. If the price would be too low, there would still be buyers and no supply. If the supply was still there then it means that the price was too high.
It is impossible to define the market price that way in a commodities market as you cannot trace the last deal made.
last shot at this: what you said about market price is the correct definition- but I agree with @texasmade it's your understanding of "quantity supplied & quantity demanded" being incorrect that's causing the confusion. it's not the total supply, but the supply at a given price.
You wrote: "Market price is reached when sellers meet buyers and when they manage to clear out all the supply, after which the demand also becomes zero as there are no buyers left to buy at that price, even if there was supply left."
emphasis mine on "at that price." so let's clarify the statement.
"Market price is reached when sellers meet buyers and when they manage to clear out all the supply at that price."
This is what is meant by your earlier definition: The price at which quantity supplied equals quantity demanded is the market price.
Not the absolute total of supply- just the supply at that price. You're adding the additional assumption that this statement means "total supply," but it doesn't say that or mean that. we're just talking about supply and demand meeting at a specific current price.
Continued- You wrote: "If the price would be too low, there would still be buyers and no supply. If the supply was still there then it means that the price was too high."
Clarification/rewrite-of this: Either the supply or the demand can be cleared out (exhausted) at a given price. IF the SUPPLY dries up at a given market price but demand is still present, market price moves up until it finds willing sellers with supply. IF the DEMAND dries up at a given market price but supply is still present, market price moves down until it finds willing buyers with demand.
Again, nowhere in here is it stated that market price is unknown or somehow dependent upon total supply. We're talking about supply (or demand) at a given price. In fact, if it was the TOTAL supply, then the additional portion about supply/demand not being present anymore at a given price wouldn't be necessary to the definition at all, and wouldn't be included.
Example: I WANT a Snoopy at retail, but there is NO supply at retail (supply at retail is a non-zero number but might as well be zero). Therefore, my "demand" moves up to a price I'm willing to pay. I'm willing to pay 14k. Unfortunately for me, ten other people are willing to pay 16k. There is no current demand above 16k. Sellers willing to sell will come down to the demand at 16k; while sellers unwilling to sell at 16k will keep their list price at higher levels. IF supply remains exactly the same, either the sellers or the buyers will "give up," and price will move accordingly. To continue this example, Demand still outpaces supply, and BUYERS "give up" at 16k as competition for snoopys is fierce, and soon price is at 18k. I finally give in to FOMO, and buy at 18.5k. Perhaps I was the last person that had to have it at this price, and there are no sales for several days because demand went to zero at this price. Sellers HOPING to have sold at the 18.5k high are now worried that they won't be able to sell at 16 either, and move back down to 16k, and a buyer steps back in, happy to not have paid 18k and now feeling "lucky" to buy at 16k. Thus, the cycle moves on, and market price constantly fluctuates as long as there is supply and demand for snoopys.
Maybe not perfectly, but yes we can track the last deal made in many cases. I agree it's not exactly the same as it is in other markets- but it's not "impossible" to track last price. Websites attempt to do this, and we have a decent idea of last price sold in many cases. This is at least partly why market price can range so wildly from one location to another, one day to another. When the bid and ask are far apart (like they are with the snoopy), there's likely to be a wide range of market prices- so using an "average" market price to calculate value is typically the most reasonable course for buyers.
I think the rest of your post is possibly utilizing ideas like "price equilibrium" or some concept of "surplus." I genuinely hope this clears up what market price is- but if it doesn't I gave it my best shot!
Will the 50th Snoops follow the 45th pricing when they end production this year? (as rumored).
To come back to the original question... How many Snoopies so far do we know were delivered by ADs?
