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Spacefruit
路路Prolific Speedmaster HoarderYes
Who would sell a watch for Bitcoin?
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panaitchrono
路I don't know very much about bitcoin..I don't even 'google' it a little to find out..so maybe what I'll say it will be stupid..but for me sound like a scam..maybe a pyramidal scam if you heard about that..馃榾
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keywerd
路I don't know very much about bitcoin..I don't even 'google' it a little to find out..so maybe what I'll say it will be stupid..but for me sound like a scam..maybe a pyramidal scam if you heard about that..馃榾
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SpeedyPhill
路... Millennials 馃榿
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Ninja2789
路A lot of interesting comments on this thread. My thoughts below:
Regarding volatility within the crypto-currency, I think you also see currency fluctuations as well. Granted, it seems bitcoin has a much higher beta, but it looks like there are times when the market is relatively stable as well. I can't speak to other crypto-currencies.
To me, the advantages are that the funds transfer almost instantaneously and you avoid the poor exchange rates that banks will often give you. I'd argue that it probably comes out a wash if you do the transaction and then convert to your choice of currency right away.
However, I think there are plenty of upcoming technology that is making international wire-transfers much easier and cheaper. I just used Transferwise for an international purchase (from OmegaForum no less!) and I saved at least a couple hundred dollars in fees. I feel the money transferring business model is ripe for innovation, especially when you see that it's costing people upwards of 4-5% just to move money around.
In short, there are probably some upsides to using crypto-currencies for physical transactions right now. However, I think there are more traditional options that exist which won't expose you to as much volatility. Save the blockchain for other purposes (data verification, financial audits, etc).
Regarding volatility within the crypto-currency, I think you also see currency fluctuations as well. Granted, it seems bitcoin has a much higher beta, but it looks like there are times when the market is relatively stable as well. I can't speak to other crypto-currencies.
To me, the advantages are that the funds transfer almost instantaneously and you avoid the poor exchange rates that banks will often give you. I'd argue that it probably comes out a wash if you do the transaction and then convert to your choice of currency right away.
However, I think there are plenty of upcoming technology that is making international wire-transfers much easier and cheaper. I just used Transferwise for an international purchase (from OmegaForum no less!) and I saved at least a couple hundred dollars in fees. I feel the money transferring business model is ripe for innovation, especially when you see that it's costing people upwards of 4-5% just to move money around.
In short, there are probably some upsides to using crypto-currencies for physical transactions right now. However, I think there are more traditional options that exist which won't expose you to as much volatility. Save the blockchain for other purposes (data verification, financial audits, etc).
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nonuffinkbloke
路I'm an old fart.
Having Bitcoin is like having all of your pics in the cloud.
One EMP from the fat lunatic in the North and you own SFA!
Under my mattress is the best place for watch kitty.
Fakkin right @JimInOz ! It's bad enough walking around with UK bank notes that "promise to pay the bearer on demand". I've never been too keen on intangible promises.馃榿 here is a picture of some lovely tangible currency.
Dig some trenches, pour some concrete and arrange these little basteddz in bonded courses. When they get higer than your head, put a roof on. You can live inside and they tend not to shrink too much during a recession.馃憤
Bitcoin is all a bit too new and too cyber space for an old duffer like me. I think selling my watch in return for this kind of currency would present too much anxiety . I'm handing over a real watch, so I would want 'real dosh' or real 'stuff' in return.
Edited:
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Foo2rama
路路Nowhere near as grumpy as he used to be...Re: mining
How to do it for free
Live in a country with free electricity say china.
Build custom enclosures and buy up all the high end video cards as they are more efficient at mining. When new video cards come out sell your old enclosures for more money then it cost to build them. Rinse and repeat.
Oh wait that's how most of the mining is being done.
How to do it for free
Live in a country with free electricity say china.
Build custom enclosures and buy up all the high end video cards as they are more efficient at mining. When new video cards come out sell your old enclosures for more money then it cost to build them. Rinse and repeat.
Oh wait that's how most of the mining is being done.
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kippyk
路Lot's of misconceptions and ignorance about bitcoin in previous posts. If someone sent me $5,000 in bitcoin, I could convert it into cash in about 60 seconds. Volatility does not matter if you only hold the bitcoin for minutes. Bitcoin can be used as a temporary store of wealth. Euros into bitcoin, then bitcoin into US dollars in a few minutes. The fluctuating value of bitcoin does not really matter in these situations.
However, converting cash into bitcoin is not free. Coinbase (largest bitcoin exchange) charges 1.49% for conversion on each end. So cash into bitcoin and then bitcoin into cash would cost about 3% roundtrip. If both sides of the transanction do not want to store wealth in bitcoin, then using bitcoin does not hold major advantages over bank transfer.
However, converting cash into bitcoin is not free. Coinbase (largest bitcoin exchange) charges 1.49% for conversion on each end. So cash into bitcoin and then bitcoin into cash would cost about 3% roundtrip. If both sides of the transanction do not want to store wealth in bitcoin, then using bitcoin does not hold major advantages over bank transfer.
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Foo2rama
路路Nowhere near as grumpy as he used to be...Lot's of misconceptions and ignorance about bitcoin in previous posts. If someone sent me $5,000 in bitcoin, I could convert it into cash in about 60 seconds. Volatility does not matter if you only hold the bitcoin for minutes. Bitcoin can be used as a temporary store of wealth. Euros into bitcoin, then bitcoin into US dollars in a few minutes. The fluctuating value of bitcoin does not really matter in these situations.
However, converting cash into bitcoin is not free. Coinbase (largest bitcoin exchange) charges 1.49% for conversion on each end. So cash into bitcoin and then bitcoin into cash would cost about 3% roundtrip. If both sides of the transanction do not want to store wealth in bitcoin, then using bitcoin does not hold major advantages over bank transfer.
No you cannot convert it to cash in 30 seconds, you need to wait for the transaction delay currently which is currently at 15 minutes, and has during the last month spiked to 1,500 minutes or just over a day.
You cannot just sign up for coinbase and have a 5k limit on cashing out, you need to build the reputation first, and that takes time and creates a paper trail.
Coinbase does not have the cash reserves to cover their position, and will very quickly go insolvent if people make a run on it. Looks at the Mt Gox fiasco, in which there are zero provisions to stop that from happening again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox and then Bitfinex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitfinex
If house bill 1045 goes through, they can close doors and disappear for all US holders, which is what they did in Hawaii. Technically they would have 30 days for everyone in the US to cash out... guess what they cannot cover that position... https://legiscan.com/WA/text/HB1045/id/1439937
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kippyk
路No you cannot convert it to cash in 30 seconds, you need to wait for the transaction delay currently which is currently at 15 minutes, and has during the last month spiked to 1,500 minutes or just over a day.
You cannot just sign up for coinbase and have a 5k limit on cashing out, you need to build the reputation first, and that takes time and creates a paper trail.
Yes... a Coinbase account requires bank information and documentation like a real bank account. There is a paper trail like a bank account. The New York Stock Exchange invested 75 million dollars into Coinbase. You can withdraw more bitcoins on a daily limit as you build your profile. 100% legitimate and reasonable. Coinbase could be issued a subpoena like a bank. This all builds up my faith in Coinbase and bitcoin in general.[/QUOTE]
Coinbase does not have the cash reserves to cover their position, and will very quickly go insolvent if people make a run on it. Looks at the Mt Gox fiasco, in which there are zero provisions to stop that from happening again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox and then Bitfinex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitfinex
Comparing Coinbase to the others is not fair. Big Wall street players are backing Coinbase. It is regulated by the state of New York. I am not sure what your point is about insolvency. Coinbase is not obligated to purchase your bitcoins. If bitcoin plummets and there is utter chaos I highly suspect one might have issues converting bitcoin into cash. There needs to be buyers and sellers on the market. This is not unlike the fiat currencies of Argentina, Brazil, Russia, Venezuela, etc. in recent years. Of course there is risk with bitcoin.
If house bill 1045 goes through, they can close doors and disappear for all US holders, which is what they did in Hawaii. Technically they would have 30 days for everyone in the US to cash out... guess what they cannot cover that position... https://legiscan.com/WA/text/HB1045/id/1439937
That bill is for Washington State. It has not affect on the US. I fully expect the banking interests to bribe the politicians to pass laws to try to slow bitcoin's growth. It is a threat to financial institutions and the money they make on transactions. Billions can be saved by consumers if they can lower the cost of transactions. Arizona and Nevada have recently passed laws saying they will enforce contracts that involve virtual currencies. Cities have tried to stop Uber to protect the taxis, and the citizens have forced them to allow Uber. Of course laws can be passed that can cause problems with bitcoin in the US.
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Perseus
路I don't want to get involved with bitcoin. I would have to really educate myself on it's history and determine what I think it's future is.
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Rasputin
路Ultimately all forms of currency must be backed by an entity that represents an inherent value to a statistically significant population. Now the entity backing a fiat currency is its respective government. This entity (government) is comprised of known individuals we can technically hold "accountable" and whom enough people value.
This begs the following questions of bitcoin:
1. Do we currently have an entity that faithfully backs bitcoin and can be tangibly held accountable?
2. Do we have a SUSTAINABLY significant population that places faith in it in the long run?
This begs the following questions of bitcoin:
1. Do we currently have an entity that faithfully backs bitcoin and can be tangibly held accountable?
2. Do we have a SUSTAINABLY significant population that places faith in it in the long run?
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sevenhelmet
路Nope.
I wouldn't do any "real world" sales with Bitcoin unless you are very, very comfortable using it. As in, comfortable enough not to need to ask the question. Otherwise, you're potentially setting yourself up to lose, for no good reason other than pure speculation on the increasing value of Bitcoin.
I'd stay away.
I wouldn't do any "real world" sales with Bitcoin unless you are very, very comfortable using it. As in, comfortable enough not to need to ask the question. Otherwise, you're potentially setting yourself up to lose, for no good reason other than pure speculation on the increasing value of Bitcoin.
I'd stay away.
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kippyk
路On average:
Visa has 1670 transactions/second
Paypal has 193 transactions/second
Bitcoin has 3 transactions/second
Visa has 1670 transactions/second
Paypal has 193 transactions/second
Bitcoin has 3 transactions/second
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djrocco2625
路Not a chance. Unless received bitcoin and converted at an agreed upon rate with buyer with a guarantee. No intraday fluctuations.
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albertob
路A lot of interesting comments on this thread. My thoughts below:
Regarding volatility within the crypto-currency, I think you also see currency fluctuations as well. Granted, it seems bitcoin has a much higher beta, but it looks like there are times when the market is relatively stable as well. I can't speak to other crypto-currencies.
To me, the advantages are that the funds transfer almost instantaneously and you avoid the poor exchange rates that banks will often give you. I'd argue that it probably comes out a wash if you do the transaction and then convert to your choice of currency right away.
However, I think there are plenty of upcoming technology that is making international wire-transfers much easier and cheaper. I just used Transferwise for an international purchase (from OmegaForum no less!) and I saved at least a couple hundred dollars in fees. I feel the money transferring business model is ripe for innovation, especially when you see that it's costing people upwards of 4-5% just to move money around.
In short, there are probably some upsides to using crypto-currencies for physical transactions right now. However, I think there are more traditional options that exist which won't expose you to as much volatility. Save the blockchain for other purposes (data verification, financial audits, etc).
+1 on transferwise
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Sublime_1
路Sure, I'd sell a watch for it but I would immediately sell it back into the market.
I own some bitcoin and I've done both cloud mining and bought it. Cloud mining didn't earn me jack and I was doing it back in 2010 and only threw a little at it each month, not more than I could afford to lose when buying it.
Almost everything you read about bitcoin is all speculative and I think a lot of wish-full thinking. I also think that its biggest hindrance are the supporters who tout it as "governments can't stop it" and "there's nothing bankers can do". Because they can and there is.
While bitcoin may not end up being in the default crypto-currency the technology will be fundamental to the development of future crypto-currencies. And there will always be people who can't be bothered with it in any fashion. But regardless it's coming, it may not be bitcoin but an international e-currency will is in our future. Hell, there are still people who don't "believe" in credit cards. I even know more than one person who has never had a bank account.
I own some bitcoin and I've done both cloud mining and bought it. Cloud mining didn't earn me jack and I was doing it back in 2010 and only threw a little at it each month, not more than I could afford to lose when buying it.
Almost everything you read about bitcoin is all speculative and I think a lot of wish-full thinking. I also think that its biggest hindrance are the supporters who tout it as "governments can't stop it" and "there's nothing bankers can do". Because they can and there is.
While bitcoin may not end up being in the default crypto-currency the technology will be fundamental to the development of future crypto-currencies. And there will always be people who can't be bothered with it in any fashion. But regardless it's coming, it may not be bitcoin but an international e-currency will is in our future. Hell, there are still people who don't "believe" in credit cards. I even know more than one person who has never had a bank account.
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kippyk
路Bitcoin up 55% since the original post on 9/22.馃榾
