I want tools that I can use on watches based on:
Vintage Omega(cal 601, 565, etc.)
King Seiko(4402, 5626, etc.)
Modern Seiko(NH36 divers)

I want to be able to open the case back, replace the crown, crystal, hands, dial, gaskets, movement, etc. Of course also to replace straps or remove links if it's a chain.

Hopefully with time and trial/error - I will also learn to dissemble movements and clean/service them. I know it's very tricky.

For now, my main goal is to adjust an NH36 to be more accurate through the small lever in there, but I don't even have a way to open my watches.

I am also buying some parts to try to assemble a vintage female Omega watch.(got a fine deal on it, and it seemed like a good pet project)

 

Best thing is to sign up for one of the AWI or BHI courses. (or similar in the country you live in.) You need to learn from another person.

You will want Bergeon or Horotek tools. DO NOT USE CHEAP AMAZON OR HARBOR FREIGHT KITS. Good EXPENSIVE tweezers are a must.

Working on watches needs some in person instruction. How high the bench is. How to sit. How to hold the tools. You tube vids are for entertainment. They position things to be best seen by the camera. They also get sponsors who give them tools to show off. Some do have links to kits. Be assured someone is getting a cut of the action.

My mentor always told me that learning from a book was like looking over someone elses shoulder. The author's head always gets in the way.

DO NOT BY WATCH PARTS ONLINE. Especially from eBay. There are places like OFrie, Cousins, Ettinger, WS Macaw, Paylack which have some parts. Finding parts online is hit and miss. Without a lot of experience you will get the wrong thing. Rusted worn out parts etc.
Sellers also break apart packages and sell the parts as one offs. Often for inflated prices. This is really a place of last resort and the sellers know that for some things they can charge a premium as those who need it are desperate.

THESE PLACES SELL STARTER WATCH KITS. Usually you can customize the case and dial. https://shop.diywatch.club/ is also a good place to start. If you do not like the prices, then this is not the Hobby for you.

If you do want to pursue watchmaking by cheap complete WORKING watches. There are a lot of nice older generic watches with AS ETA and Felsa Movements. By assortments. These also look like the cheaper pin lever movements. Sometimes good movements get mixed in with the bad.

This becomes addictive. I am completely addicted myself. I buy too much crap on eBay. I also never heed my own advice here. Watchmaking can be rewarding. It also can entail a lot of waiting. I currently have 3 or four items stuck in transit, with tracking and no movement, and have been so for a week. The distribution system is overwhelmed and broken.

Omega ladies < 18mm watches are not good to learn on either. The parts are quite small, and the plates stacked. Easy to break pivots, Jewels and springs what vanish into think air. Can be total frustration.

Note you will be competing for a smaller dwindling supply of parts.

This is not to discourage such things. I want more people to take up the craft. The more people who can self repair, the better the argument that the manufactures should return to selling parts to collectors who self service their own stuff.

Ironically Omega used to give away screwdriver kits.

 

Another good source is Marshall from Wristwatch Revival: https://sutcliffehansen.com/pages/tool-kits

 

I have had good luck with Esslinger. https://www.esslinger.com/

 

In some ways I blame those You tube channels for rekindling my interest in watchmaking.

I still think they get a cut of the fancy tools they show off. These videos are really for generating clicks. WR and Marshall is one of the better ones. I even follow them on IG for what it is worth.

Better to learn what are the good tools and what are not. My impression these were amazon tools.

Esslinger would probably be the better option.

There is a wealth of info here burried in the watchmaker section (which this is) Do a search on @Archer who has never failed to not give good advice.

 

I'm an amateur horologist. I've serviced about 50 watches.

You'll need screwdrivers. I have this set which I recommend. Same here.
Tweezers. I like these brass ones as there's less a chance of scratching stuff.
I also bought this set of steel tweezers. It was a shot in the dark because at that price I thought it can't be good. Well, it turns out they are surprisingly good. Definitely not Dumont quality, but good for 95% of watch parts handling.
To complete the tweezer set you might consider these. You'll be able to handle the tiniest screw with ease (stud screw, endstone cap screw). You won't need it if you are not going to service movements.

I like using a visor for working on large parts (case, bracelet, dial) and use a microscope for smaller parts.
I hate using the loupe, and rarely do.

 

I think I will either get a big Esslinger kit or something from diywatch.club, though I will take some time to figure which is better value.
Thanks for the info, everyone!

In the meantime I will get some assorted junk watches too, so I can learn and experiment without fear.

Btw:
Does Esslinger have an EU shop or do I have to order from US?

Do I need a high quality timegrapher or can I just get anu USB one? Likewise for demagnetizer? I read that those two things are not important unlike tweezers and other mechanical tools where you need high quality. Is that true?

 

Timegrapher: you might want to try this one (free). You can use an external microphone though the one in my laptop does the job.

 

I’ve learned the hard way that cheaping-out on tools, even when you’re starting, is a mistake. I agree that WR/Marshall is a wonderful resource. I have watched just about all of his videos.

 

Ok, will this do as the starter?

Basic kit:
https://www.esslinger.com/the-integral-watch-tool-kit/

Hands tool:
https://www.esslinger.com/stella-euro-watch-hand-press-inserting-tool/

Case openers:
https://www.esslinger.com/watch-case-opening-friction-ball-watch-back-opener-tool/
https://www.esslinger.com/watch-case-opener-for-screw-on-style-backs-pocket-wrench-tool-square-pins/
https://www.esslinger.com/jaxa-style-watch-case-opener-wrench-for-large-watches/
(Do I need this last one? I want to work on Seiko divers too)

Anti-static pad:
https://www.esslinger.com/watchmakers-anti-static-bench-mat-work-pad-9-5-x-14-inches/

 

Even more so than with many other things, with tools in particular you almost always get what you pay for, cheap price = cheap tools, do you really want to fuck up your watches with cheap tools?

 

Aren't tools from Esslinger good enough though for a novice to start? I am not going to get a chinese kit from Amazon or anything.

Of course if I get my hands on some really high end rare watches, I will probably upgrade the tools.

 

I don’t do much work on my watches, less than you plan to by the sounds of things. I tried the cheap tools thinking the same as you, that they were good enough for a beginner to start with. They are not, just trust me and everyone else telling you to spend a few bucks on at least Horotek or similar if you don’t want to spring for Bergeron.

 

How much would I need to spend on Horotek/Bergeon for something decent?

With Esslinger, my estimate is around ~ 300 $(prob 450ish with tax/VAT and shipping)

 

And that JAXA "style" case opener, spring for a real one, do you really want to destroy a case back to save...

Good tools, watch, automotive, construction are a lifetime investment.

 

I have some of the Esslinger type kits, which are good for using a pry bars and such. OK for electronics work and working on iPhones.

Read @Archer posts on dressing screwdrivers. We are so lucky to have a forum like this, and would have been a great thing thirty years ago.

The Esslinger tool kits are crap. They are made to look like Bergeon. The steel is a joke. Can not hold an edge. Some of my screwdrivers are sharper than my Xacto knife. These fill a niche for people who like collecting tools and like assortments. (don't we all?) Remember these supply places need to keep the lights on and the family fed.

Splurge the money for the good stuff. Good steel is like a chocolate chip cookie recipe. Or better yet a sublime dessert or meal. One may have all the ingredients in the same amount. It is how they are mixed together what matters.

Buy only the blades and handles needed. One secret trick is that Bergeon replacement blades can be purchased. The handles are basically pin vices. Such are sold to be ergonomic. Remember watchmaking/repair is industrialized. There have been a lot of motion studies done. And the goal is for watchmakers to service three to 5 watches a day in a highly supervised setting. I find there are three screwdrivers I use the most, depending on the watch caliber.

(There are also gnomes what live in Swiss attics, But these folk know what rules to bend/ or break)

The forces at the watch level have weird centers of gravity. So metal does not move the way you expect it to. Electrostatic forces are strong at this level. Finger oils, residuals from the molybdenum will even cause brass and bronze tweezers to stick to small parts like cap jewels and springs. Flinging such into the void never to be seen again.

Expect to spend between 1 and 5 K for the basics. Start small. The tweezers and screwdrivers are going to cost that much. The little cup for closing mainsprings not so much.

Benches are designed to keep the back straight. They are going to be a meter tall. Do not hunch over the kitchen table. Sit low, You are working at eye/elbow height. Feels really unnatural at firsts (and after an 18year break)

Timegraphers are crutches in a way. As noted there are apps for that. The cheap amazon ones are fine as are degaussers. The adjusting and timing comes later.

More practical is the cleaning machine. (why starting with clean working watches is a good idea.) One is going to assemble things many times over. It is not a mountain to be climbed. I mix my own solutions using Henry's old recipie. The secret ingredient oxolic acid is Murphy oil soap, which is a wood cleaner. Amonia and acetone are the other ingredient. Thinned with distilled or DI water. If you can afford an RO unit DI water is pure magic. Aqua vita, will dissolve anything.) High proof alcohol can be used as water displacement in the drying. Note there is a lot of absorbed water once the bottle is opened. A hairdryer and tight mesh basket can be used to remove any left over water. Hot as you can touch, was my mentors rule for the final rinse and dry.

Some correspondence schools just had students practicing screwing and unscrewing plate screws 100s of times. My mentor had me to a lot of filing. (as did jewelry classes) This more applies to lathe work. Pivot polishing and balance staff creation. More applicable for 18th and 19th century stuff. Still if the parts are not in tip top shape, then no amount of timing correction will help.

Practice taking the balance on and off. When I restarted, I mangled a number of springs. On @Archers recommendation I got the bronze Bergeon tweezers. Have yet to mangle a hairspring with them yet.

Always wind a spring with a tool. This is a major necessary cost right there. Springs can be walked out of the barrel. There is a chance hey are already slightly coned.

I have taken to using the soft brass Esslinger tweezers. These do not hold shape and get dinged up a good bit, but really are great for the basic manipulation. Keep a stone handy for dressing them. I actually use a scrap of tool steel for dressing tweezers. Not sure this is Kosher, but it does give them a good burnish. I hardly use the steel ones anymore. (I wreaked most my steel tweezers soldering microelectronics)

You should be able to pick a human hair off a sheet of glass and flip it over. (really takes in person instruction, as this is a bit of an unnatural feeling.) As I have noted elsewhere. Human tendons are designed to bring food into the mouth.


The green mat is easy on the eyes. These come in different shades. One old magazine columnist would call such the 144 square inches we live in. A good cross over swing light is a must. Natural light should come over your left shoulder if right handed.

Then there is the oils and oilers. This is a subject unto itself. I got the kit, although I am still not quite sure the difference between 9501 and 9504. 9010 is the critical one, Then probably 9504 which gets molybdenum everywhere although it stays in place.

Epilame and the specialized escape oils are something one can learn do down the road. In the old days I just used 9010, which may have more creep and is intended for the jewels. I have not yet splurged on Eplilame.

I cheated on the Braking grease. Using what ever the thread said was a last resort (9501 as I recall)

Lest I forget. Finger cots. People differ, some have stronger fingerprints than others. Totally random. Some people a good soapy scrub is enough. Fingerprints can also be like photo film. They come visible down the line as such affect oxidation of the surface. Fabric gloves leave fuzz. Rubber/petrosilicone gloves do not breathe and the hand sweats more. Watch factories are cleaner than most surgical rooms and smell much the same. Work clean. I got sloppy a few weeks back, and am still waiting for the part from eBay that vanished into the void.

I see while I was writing this. Do not get a Jaxa watch wrench case destroyer. These also require vices clamping fixtures and microfine cloths. The rubber ball works wonders. If I can not get the back off I take it to the local watchmaker to loosen for me. They do this every day. Oyster knifes are one of the things I do use the cheap stuff for.

So now you can sort of see how this is going to cost a grand or more. Jewel, case and crystal presses are going to cost that again. Then there are the turns. poising tools and lathes.

Note this takes time. I joined these forums in 2022 and am only now feeling comfortable here nearly two years later of practicing on AS and Landeron Chronographs, to feel comfortable working on my Omegas again.


Sorry 1000 words, no pictures.

 

Why buy from Esslinger etc.

Looks like you're in the UK, so HS Walsh, Cousins etc would be easier for you.

And rather than buying a "kit", just start with the basics and add more tools as you identify the need for them.

 

@JimInOz, thanks for the links, but I am actually in EU, not in UK. So ordering from both US/UK implies tax and VAT. Of course I am willing to order from countries outside EU if I can't find a well priced EU supplier.

@sheepdoll, thanks for the extensive post. It made me realize that I should start slow with good tools instead of trying to get everything right away, so I will not think of fiddling with movements yet. So I won't settle for a low quality kit, but build one over time.

I am going to go over the Esslinger kit, and pick alternatives for every part I need from Bergeon.

@X350 XJR, are JAXA openers bad even if it's one from Bergeon?

 

JAXA openers need a special skill to use. My watcmaker wraps everthing in cloth. Has vices pinboards and such. Like everything else it is practice, practice, practice.

Without hands on instruction, one might simply use a file to open a watch. One observation is that such tools are only used to loosen the threads. The actual removal is done with a sharpened stick. Most do not even go small enough for the ladies.

Better to use openers with fixed pins in them. Some members here sell such for opening Speedmasters.

Do not try and do too much at once. Still think DIY watch club is the way best way to see if one has the temperment for working on watches.

 

You have a huge selection of suppliers in the EU.

Boley for starters.

And don't be too focussed on Bergeon, there are other brands just as good (some better) than the Bergeon brand.
Horotec for example, produce good quality tools at more reasonable price points. There's also AF Switzerland and I'm sure many others.

Be aware that many items are produced in the same factories and simply branded with a name.

I envy you for the range of options you have in the EU.