Hi Omegoids
There's been some discussion of late on the climbing prices of vintage Speedies, but has anyone else noticed significant price hikes on other vintage models.
For example I've been casually looking to replace a very nastily painted cal 611 Seamaster 600 date dial... Every so often I take a good look around at all things SM600. It seems that indifferent to ok standard mid 60's 600's have climbed from the 200-250 UKP mark to well over 350 with better examples closer to 500-600.
6 months back you could expect a similar standard well used Chronostop to fetch 380-450 UKP range....now 575 upwards. I've also seen tired Naiads and Medicus watches reach "spit your beer out" levels.

I'm starting to watch the closing stage of auctions of pieces I'm not even interested in just to see how far this craziness will go. I originally thought it was the pre-Christmas price hikes, but it seems there is a really burgeoning interest in vintage Omegas out there and folk are grabbing them up..even the dogs that even someone like me would baulk at. There is a similar trend with JLC's but not so quite pronounced...though my dream of a bargain futurematic is disappearing into the sunset.

As a self professed bottom feeder of vintage Omega watches (mild to severe doer uppers and small risk taking) I'm finding that I'm slowly getting priced out . what might have been a worthwhile risk at 130-200 UKP is a definite no no at 300 plus...especially after figuring the cost of a revision. Perhaps I'm just imagining it. Certainly all manner of online buying possibilities are getting expansive and junk shop raking, yard sales, and flea markets really seem to be the future best bet to secure a decent deal. My local junk guy recently parted with a Speedy Mark 4.5 for 600 Euros to one of his regulars (I was 1 hour late..grrr)...I could have lived with that sort of price...but not bouncing near 2k .

Are there similar worrying trends with the likes of Connies or military era models (I don't really follow that route so much). Maybe it's my imagination but I'd like to hear from those who perhaps collect particular models or lines...apart from vintage Speedies ..we know they're going up about 100 USD a month on average.

To those of you who are starting to be tempted to go beyond your financial means by way of justifying it to yourself as an "investment", I'd suggest you google about the Vintage guitar market crash a few years back:- The price of a vintage 1950's American Stratocaster in 2009 compared to what it would cost now...
Just sayin' that's all...

 

I know UK watches have gone up slowly in reaction to the pounds value. When Brexit was announced the pound fell but prices in UK money stayed flat, with a lot of watches leaving the country. The prices in the UK have slowly risen to better match world value.

 

I follow f300s and 70s quartz watches quite often, because They are my favourite watches. Prices asked have risen but what they are actually fetching is another matter.
My impression is that people start looking at speedies etc, think....bloody hell that's lot for a watch..... and start looking at other models which eventually pushes the prices up of watches in all price classes.

 

I've noticed an upward trend in prices as well. It's been quite evident with late 60s Seamaster/Seamaster De Ville models.

Here are a couple examples that I was following that had IMO high selling prices given their condition:

The listing for this watch stated that the case was either 14k gold filled or 14k solid gold (bit of a difference). Seller said he could not read the mark between the lugs. No pics of the movement. It sold for $610 USD.



This one had a unique dial but two broken lugs and no pics of the movement. It sold for $587 USD.



I've also noticed an increase in prices for Geneve models. The following unserviced example with a cal. 1012 recently sold for $553USD.



I don't foresee a reversal in this trend any time soon.

 

I've definitely seen an increase in the 'classic' 60's Seamasters, 600's, DeVilles etc in the U.K.

Bog standard DeVilles now frequently reach £800+ with a BoR, when they used to be much less.
600's could be had under £300 18 months ago and now frequently go £400+.

 

I think we are being too nice to newbies here, helping them pay too much for nice watches. More demand, inflation rises. We should tell them to get those nice Mumbay redials in purple. They are a beauty!!.

 

I have also notices price increases on just about all models of vintage Omegas, especially during the last 4-5 months. I look for Omegas only and would not be surprised if it is true for other brands also. "Buy-it-now" prices are ridiculously high, although lot of them just get re-listed.

This is another reaon to avoid the auction sites and stick to watch forums. Taking some calculated risk for low price is one thing but getting hoodoo-ed and paying for that experience is another. Omegaforums is a safe harbour IMO.

 

What's Up? Price on everything vintage. I gave up on Rolex and am about to invest in Vintage Omega before they get too dumb

 

As a B&M auction regular, I'm noticing prices slowly rise too.

With regard to @Foo2rama 's comment above, I saw a huge number of US and European buyers snapping up watches at prices I couldn't match post-Brexit (particularly when the £ was down in the $1.2x range) but that seems to have stopped.

There's an increased interest in vintage watches that is being driven by their exposure in various media and we've all seen the price rises in the "big names" like Speedmasters, Submariners and GMTs. Those price rises have taken some watches out of the reach of more modest buyers, resulting in a price "ripple" in other brands and models.

Personally, I think that's all we're seeing: the knock on effect of the price rises of the more desirable watches.

 

Will prices reset? Again if we can apply basic economics here, if there's a limited supply and more demand, prices will only continue to climb isn't it?

Talking about guitars, I have a 1980s fender MIA strat that I kept. Haven't played for a long time. What happened to the vintage market for guitars? It crashed and resetted?

 

Buy, buy, buy .... Seriously though, for me this is a hobby and not an investment. I buy watches that I like the look of, history, movement, etc.. regardless of price (I have sub $1k pieces and expensive pieces). If prices do continue to climb, I hope I can get some of the last few major corner stone pieces before they are out of my reach. There are already quite a few pieces that have unfortunately already surpassed my comfort zone.

I do believe short of a complete market collapse, world war, etc.... that prices will continue to rise, as previously stated there is a limited supply compared to demand. Especially for pieces that are still in top shelf condition, that number is even more limited. This is not only for watches, unfortunately bezels (DON), inserts (Rolex), bracelets...... blah blah blah, are all also getting very pricey.

 

So I did abit of googling, and I found this regarding the vintage guitar market crash https://www.reddit.com/r/Guitar/comments/5jlxjs/discussion_the_guitar_market_and_value_of_most/

Quote from the first reply
"The vintage market is what it is because guitars represent a cultural touchstone-- 20th century rock music and the famous musicians who are associated with it-- and people with money and a generational tie to that period want to own "fetishes" that symbolize it.

That's it. That's the demand. That's the market.

When those people begin to die off, that market will shrink. And there aren't enough new customers coming up to replace those older customers as they die out.

The vintage guitar market is going to reset itself within another fifteen or twenty years, I suspect. Anyone who thinks that guitars are a good investment is in for a rude awakening."


___________________________________________________________________________________________


Some posters made a few interesting points :
* Market Demand = Baby Boomers with cash, who want to buy their guitar hero's guitars/reissues etc (sounds similar to watches), Millienials might catch on abit to be part of that demand,

Quoted from the reddit post Gen Z'ers will have any desire to buy vintage gear or understand the era it was associated with, OR have the money to purchase it at it's current value any time soon.

*Supply = If we are talking about vintage Rolex, vintage Omegas, then the supply is rather limited isn't it?

In response to Kali77's about buying a watch that you like and don't see it as an investment; I can understand that point of view; however, it definitely sucks to have put down 10 grand on a watch and only to realize that its worth 5 grand in 10 years time....Possible for a vintage Rolex/Omega to reset the price that drastically?

I think vintage guitars and vintage watches have quite a few common themes yet they might head in very different directions come 5-10 years time?

Millennials have been very strong social presence and with influencers like Hodinkee putting out vintage themed articles/videos, I can only see the vintage market to continue to rise...

 

I agree on this. Past months I´ve been looking for watches what I want to have (Speedmaster is there, but out of my "reasonable" budget) - so "had to" change my mind for now and look some other nice pieces which are still on my range. My (newbie), point of view vintage Speedys are the main reason why other models are slowly going higher and higher. Speedys popolarity will stay for sure but I believe that now overlooked models will be more desirable in year or two. Though to bring any new content to disscussion when you are a newcomer - but still.

 

You may be right. Buying es335 because of the Clapton/Cream thing or a seafoam green jag and plaid shirt per Cobain may be no different than having a 3570 because your favorite spaceman wore one.

Vintage guitars have been very good to me.
It was a good gig while it lasted. If you think about it...it's easier to throw a bunch of watches in a bag when the shit hits than a bunch of guitars. Anyhow, just a thought.

Have fun,
-kfw
Edited for clarity

 

There are so many undervalued other brands when you think one is getting out of touch

 

I like 50s and early 60s Constellations and Seamasters, with a particular soft spot for 552 SMs and SM De Villes. I'm not seeing nearly so many of these on ebay as I used to and we all know what rising demand + reduced supply leads to.

When I started to get interested in vintage Omegas I was trying to figure out values and made notes of those on ebay UK that caught my eye for whatever reason. No Speedmasters here as I was never that bothered about those, plus you need to bear in mind a) my undeveloped knowledge; b) tht this list was purely for my reference and never intended for anyone else and looking back I don't always even know what I meant (cheap-looking??). Still, hopefully it's of some interest as a period snapshot. There certainly seem to be a lot more early Constellations on it than are about now.

Sept 2012
Good no-date SS de Ville, no BOR, c. £300.
Good no-date SS de Ville, no BOR, box and papers, £400.
Good no-date SS de Ville, black face, gold hands, no BOR, made £310
Good no-date GC de Ville, no BOR, c. £350.
Good no-date SS SM 552, no BOR, c. £350
18 ct Geneve 552, leather strap, made £480 (promptly relisted).
Good SS Con 551, hex crown, no BOR, £570
18K 551 pie pan, made £2560
Good SS Con 561, gold hands and batons, hex crown, no BOR, made £470.
9-row SS BOR – c. £140.
Seamaster 501, leather strap, made £304
Seamaster 120 w. 601 mvt, leather strap, made £928
Cosmic 2000 diver w. bracelet, tatty, made £576
SS Cosmic 2000 date made £340
0SS 471 SM, no BOR, made £156

Nov 2012:
18ct 354 Const, non pp, rose gold w non-matching but signed crown, made £759
18ct rose gold SM 354 chrono, all orig, solid lugs, superb, made £5,362 in US
18K no-name 552. baton insets partly missing, made £525
Poor SM 552, broken glass & no crown, made £135
SS SM 552 case 165, steel hands, no BOR, gc, made £380
SS pie pan 561, later crown, no BOR, made £566
SS date SM 562? w. papers and 7-row BOR, made £310
SS SM De Ville date 563?, BOR, patinated dial but good, orig crown, made £295
18ct 1967 C-shape 564, near mint, no BOR made £1660
GT Geneve 565, integral bracelet, vgc, made £165
SS SM 1010? (date), good, made £216
GT SM 1012, good, made £200
SS Geneve manual 1030 w steel Omega bracelet, made £197
SS Con 505, non pp dial w quarter numbers, orig crown, back worn but still good, copy BOR, made £387
SS bumper auto date 1946, cal 28.10.RA.SC.PC, good, made £155

December 2012:
18ct chronograph, 1939, vgc, £1423
SS SM 342, vgc, orig crown, leather strap, £161
SS SM 354, darkened dial otherwise vgc, £445
18ct rose gold de luxe 354 w box and papers, v good, initials JMW on back, yellow gold buckle, sold as BIN for £2500
18ct gold SM 354 chronometer, bit battered and spotted but very nice, £727
GC Const 501, orig crown, no BOR, yellowed dial with some spots, £435
SS SM 501 with 7-row BOR, vgc, inscribed to Captain, £401
SS SM 501, quite good, orig crown, fixoflex br, Arabic quarters, £254
SS De Ville 550, dial marked, new crown, £185
SS pie pan 551, no BOR, patinated but good dial, sold for £350 best offer
SS Const 551, domed dial in v poor shape, otherwise good, no BOR, £206
SS SM 552, steel hands, no BOR, near mint, £250
SS SM 552, 7-row BOR, near mint, gold hands, case 165.003, £365
SS Geneve 552, fixoflex bracelet, poor photos, £197
SS Geneve 552, as mine but SS hands, supposed serviced, vgc, £300
14ct Geneve 552, no BOR, good, £364
18 ct 552, no BOR, good, £620
SS Dynamic 552?, black dial blue s-hand, looked ok but poor photos, £155
SS Omega 552, red second hand, vgc, no BOR, £250
GC Const 561, ok, no BOR, £460
SS 561, BOR, good but well redialled, £580
18ct pie pan 561, no BOR, good, £1440
14 ct dome dial 561, 9 ct BOR, £1020
SS 561 or 564, good, orig crown, non-Omega bracelet, £430
SS SM date 562?, vgc, all orig, BOR, made £271
GC SM De Ville, 560 or 562, average, BOR, £332
18ct SM De Ville, 560 or 562, vgc, £670
GT SM chronometer, 564, good, no BOR, made £410
GC Const 564, no BOR, £363
564 movement made £225 in US
18ct dome dial Const, 564? (1967), Arabic numerals, near mint, £1230
Good SM 300, cal 565 w bracelet, £1420
SS Const 751, non-BOR bracelet, mint, £575
GC Const 751, leather strap, made £271
Near-mint SS SM 752 w steel bracelet, £299
SS Const 1011, black TV dial, bracelet, £216
SS Geneve 1012 w bracelet, mint, £310
SS SM 1012 w bracelet, near mint, £190
SS SM Cosmic 2000, good, bracelet, £180
GT SM Cosmic 2000, 1012, bracelet, poor photos, £200
SS SM 1020, mint, no BOR, £642
SS SM 1020, steel bracelet, vgc, £255
SS SM 1020, steel bracelet, vgc, Regency dial, £228
GT Const 1021, vgc, no BOR, £353
Modern Seamaster chronometer w box and papers, white dial and date, £650
V nice SS SM 600, manual, £225
7-row BOR, 11 end links, £103
9-row BOR, worn but ok, £53
9-row BOR, near mint, £110

Jan 2013
SS SM, black dial, 501?, no BOR, looked ok but poor pics, £166
SS SM, black dial, 501, vgc, Arabic corners, no BOR, best offer £385
18ct SM De Ville (no BOR or buckle), £731
18ct SM De Ville, no BOR or buckle, £995
9ct SM 552, Arabic numbers, spots and scratches but nice, no BOR, £377
SS SM 552, faulty BOR, few scratches but ok, £190
SS SM 552, dial slightly discoloured, £252
SS SM 552, vgc, non-Omega crown, £369
Dynamic 552, bracelet, quite good, £218
SM 300 552, no bracelet, £1354
SS SM Memomatic, bracelet, ok, £500
SS SM chronometer, £600
SS SM yachting chronograph, blk face orange hands, bracelet, vgc, £1675
SS Constellation 561, case 168.004 (hidden crown), 7-row fake? BOR, good, £367
SS Constellation, black dial, 561 or 564, BOR, vgc, £435
GC Const 561, piepan, £515
GC SM De Ville, 562?, BOR, worn but ok, £216
SS SM 562?, non-Omega bracelet, vgc, £255
GC Const, BOR, prob 564, ok, £377
SS SM 565, no BOR, quite good, good write-up, BIN £345
SS Geneve 601, vgc, box, £242
GP Geneve 601 bracelet, mint, box, papers, £236
De Ville auto date, prob. 711, 18 ct, no strap, BIN £1100
SS C-shape Const 751, near mint, no BOR, £499
SS SM 752, BOR, vgc, £352
9ct SM 752, 9ct bracelet, vgc, box and papers, BIN £1950
SS SM De Ville date, slight discolour, no BOR, £448
SS Const date 1001, black TV dial, bracelet, exc, £235
SS SM 1010, bracelet, ok but slight spots, £175
SS Const 1011, bracelet, near mint, serviced, £452
SM Cosmic 2000 Diver, 1012, bracelet, vgc, best offer £740
SS Geneve 1012?, bracelet, non-orig Crown, slow, £181
GC SM 1012, no BOR, v good dial, scratches to back, £294
SM Cosmic 2000, 1020, white face, bracelet, vgc, £350
SS SM 1020, bracelet, vgc, £275
SS SM TV dial, prob 1020, ok, no strap, £167
GP Geneve 1022, mint, seems unused, orig strap and buckle, £397

Feb 2013
SS Seamaster 30, 286? mvt, no strap, very nice, £215
SS Seamaster 30, 286 mvt, vgc, £203
9ct Omega manual w milanese bracelet, £600
SS SM 351, vgc, £320
18ct Const calendar 504, good, £1855
SS Omega manual 520, Omega bracelet, slight spots but nice, £200
SS Omega manual 520, Omega mesh bracelet, good, £218
SS Const 551, worn case and dial, no strap, £310
9ct Omega 552, non-Omega bracelet, appears fair, £190
9ct SM 552, Speidel bracelet, face spotty, £225
9ct SM 552, v slight spots, Dennison case, non-Omega crown, £461
18ct SM 552, non-orig crown, slight marks, £660
SS SM 552, vgc, £212
SS SM 552, crosshair dial as mine, no bracelet, vgc, £350
SS SM De Ville 562, date stuck, slight dial discolour, £294
SS Const 564, no bracelet, vgc, £620
SS Geneve 565, slight discolour, £205
SS Omega 600, vgc, £155
GC Seamaster 600, near mint, £297
GC SM Cosmic, 752?, BOR, vgc, £361
SS SM 752, bracelet, vgc, £245
9ct Omega 1012, papers, vgc, £351
GC SM 1022, Omega bracelet, mint, £345

March 2013
Triple moon phase manual c. 1948, discolour, £1270
18ct Const 354, 2-tone dial, gold arrowheads, unsigned crown, slight discolour, vgc, £797
SS SM 501?, vgc, £301
GC Const crosshair pie pan 505?, Arabic corner numbers, £632
S Const 551, 7 row BOR, Arabic corners, cracked glass ow good, £432
551 movement £352
552 movement £79
SS 552 auto, quite nice but cheap-looking, £145
SS SM 300, 552, big triangle, military marked, £6354
SS SM 552, Speidel flex bracelet, near mint, £310
9ct SM 552, Arabic corners, vgc, £490
SS Const pie pan 561, vgc, £455
9ct SM 562, glass scractched otherwise ok, £304
SS SM 562, 7-row BOR, later Omega crown, good, £245
SS Const domed 564, v slight discolour, £359
SS SM 565, 7 row BOR, slight discolour, £287
SS Geneve dynamic, 565, bracelet, v good, clean dial, £201
18ct SM 600 w 18ct bracelet, vgc, 60g overall weight, £770
SS 600, 601 mvt, bit speckled but good, Omega non-BOR bracelet, £180
SS Const 711, vgc, £334
SS Const 711, dial bubbling slightly, otherwise ok, £167
18k Const 711, face v slightly grubby, £820
GC Const 751 w brick bracelet, dial good, slight wear to gold, £410
GC SM 752, mint, Omega bracelet, £400
SS SM 1022, bracelet, vgc, £275

April 2013
SS SM 501, vgc, raised dial, £650 (newbiggen)
GC Const 505, black dial, arrowhead markers, initials to back, vgc, £554
SS Const 551, domed dial, engraving, £477
SS SM De Ville, 550/552, 9-row BOR, very nice, £335
SS SM De Ville, linen dial, steel hands, vgc, £370
SS SM 552, Hirsch strap, vgc, £561
SS Omega 552, 1961, looks a bit cheap but good condition, £107
9ct SM 552, face good, £500
SS SM 552, appears average, £255
GC SM De Ville 552, slight discolour, £192
GC Const pie pan 561, vgc, £665
561 movement only, £92
18ct SM 562, vgc, £1170
18ct SM 562 w 18ct bracelet, 99g, vgc, £3250
SS Const 564, black dial, vgc, £505
SS Const 712, vgc, £326
SS SM 1012, bracelet, vgc, £322
SS SM 1020, bracelet, 1979, vgc, £360
GC SM 1022, Omega bracelet, mint, £430

May
Geneve dynamic 565 with bracelet, £287
GC Const 1021, good, no bracelet, £300

 

More demand, less supply... prices of popular vintage models will keep going up and in turn less popular models will follow.

BTW, popular modern watches from respected brands keep going up too. That concerns me a lot more. $42k for a 5711 anyone?

 

Good bit of historical price info @Edward53
You’ve been watching Omegas since 2012 - so how come you didn’t join OF till 2016?

Regarding Connies - SS versions have risen in leaps and bounds in the 3 years I’ve been collecting. Both pie pan and dome dials.
In my estimation between 50-100% depending on style and condition.
Gold Connies have risen only gently -perhaps only 10-20% - as I suppose they were ‘all of the money’ anyway. (And I guess are less fashionable to most nowadays)
Will it continue - who knows?
But if you’re buying to collect and not investment then you pay the going rate if you want the watch.

 

Yep - everything's tied to who wants it. Muscle cars in the early 2000s were bought by American men in their 60s who finally had made enough money to buy the Hemi 'Cudas and split-window Corvettes they dreamed about as kids. Now, and for the next 10-20 years, '90s Japanese performance cars are going to see a rise, and then fall, in value - as people who saw The Fast and the Furious as teenagers just have to get their hands on a Supra or RX-7. But people just 5 or 10 years younger just won't care about them.

Thing about vintage watches though is, they're cool now. The watches may be old, but interest in them is new - and a younger person dreaming of a Daytona or Autavia now may still desire one when they've made some money in 20 or 30 years