Sorry if this is a silly question.

I am reading a bit on how the mechanics of watches work. Something I have not read that bothers me.

Where does the balance spring/wheel gets it energy from to keep in motion. ie what restores its energy?

Does the pallet somehow transfer some energy to it?

 

Yes, mainspring powers the wheel train, and eventually the escape wheel. Escape wheel teeth transmit power to the pallet fork impulse faces, which swings the fork side to side., The impulse pin (roller jewel) on the underside of the balance is pushed by the fork to swing the wheel.

This will help you understand it...

 

Mechanical watches are powered by voodoo.

Seriously, the video Al posted is great. If you want a breakdown of each section of the watch, here ya go:

http://www.watchtalkforums.info/forums/thread22496.html

 

Thank you very much people.

The hard part to grasp is: who powers who.............. I sort of understand now.
It was hard to understand because the balance spring "moves" the pallet fork, at the same time the pallet fork gives the balance wheel a nudge. Like a two way thing.

Amazing

 

The balance only provides the unlocking of the escape wheel via the impulse pin and pallet fork - it's the escape wheel and pallet fork that do all the powering to the balance. The balance assembly does store energy in the balance spring that returns the balance wheel back the other way after it's pushed by the pallet fork and impulse pin, but that energy comes from the wheel train and mainspring to begin with.

That video is about the best one I know of to explain these basic concepts in a watch - all a mechanical watch is at a basic level is the controlled release of energy from a spring, with some indicating hands attached.

Cheers, Al

 

Thanks Al.

It is now certainly understandable................... mmmm yes it is.

The part that I "missed" was the impulse face of the fork and the job it does.

 

What we see here is pretty typical from forums on all subjects all over the world.

1 - A member asks a question that is not as simple as it sounds.

2 - Various members provide answers that either a) don't answer the question, b) only answer a part of the question or worst, c) give the WRONG answer!

Kobus asked a legitimate question that goes to the HEART of horology and no one gave a satisfactory answer. It's tricky because, as he mentioned, there are two things going on: 1) releasing the current escape tooth and 2) providing the balance wheel with a small additional impulse. The two are completely separate yet most "experts" on the web insist on treating them as the same or glossing over one or the other.

This is a tricky question and sadly, 95% of the answers that you will find on the web will NOT give you the true answer! I know this because I had been looking for the answer for a long time and read all kinds of unhelpful words on the subject from well meaning pests, as well as fools who said various incorrect things including that the impulse to the balance wheel was delivered by the gaurd pin!

Fortunately I finally found the correct answer here: https://www.watchdoctor.biz/escapement/ Thanks to Mark Sirianni for detailing what EVERY watchmaker ought to know!

Here is the answer to the dilemma:

1 - The impulse jewel located under the balance roller swings back and enters the FORK SLOT knocking the leading face of that slot and unlocking the pallet that is holding the current escape tooth.

2 - As the tooth is released under mainspring power it follows the profile of the pallet jewel which provides a kick to the pallet lever which THEN strikes the impulse jewel with trailing edge of the of FORK SLOT, giving it the extra energy it needs to keep going.

3 - The two impulses come both both ends of the system and the 2nd happens VERY soon after the first. They are close in time but NOT simultaneous.

The critical points here are that there are TWO contacts per tooth release NOT one and that the action takes place within the FORK SLOT. Did Archer make either of these two points? No. Can you understand how a watch works without knowing these things? No!

Seriously people. The world would be a better place if people who don't REALLY KNOW the answer just kept their mouths shut. The web is so full of wrong or unhelpful answers that it has become almost impossible to find the one guy that ACTUALLY knows. Obviously all watch movement designers know this stuff but strangely it doesn't seem to have percolated down to all watchmakers...

 

Your first post on the forum and you dug up a six year old post to have a rant?

 

Kinda reminds me of an Irish guy I used to know. He often said 'Take plenty of no notice'. Best advice I ever had!

 

Damn I thought @Archer answered it very well.

And he only realized this because……..@Archer mentioned it.

And not a good one at that. Sorry TheMartian, if that’s how you going to conduct yourself here may I suggest that you frequent
Www.watchuseek.com rather than here. Thank you and welcome to “eternal ignore”

 

Thanks for chiming in. I didn't mention those things, because they were not directly related to answering the question that was asked, which was "what powers the balance."

When I write an answer to a post, I answer the question being asked with enough detail to answer it, and adding in a lot of extra detail is not always helpful (and it's not always practical either, because answering these questions takes time away from me actually earning a living - I don't get paid for answering questions on watch forums). You went looking for an answer to a different question, and you found a place where a watchmaker has copied some information and diagrams from some book (without citing the source) to get that answer. Glad that you found something that was satisfactory to you.

However if we are criticizing the lack of completeness in my answer, you need to understand that the answer given there to "how the escapement works" (a different question than what this thread is about) is far from complete. For a more complete answer, I would recommend you get a copy of The Theory of Horology. ISBN 2-940025-12-6.

In that book, the few paragraphs written in the link you provided are expanded to 30 pages of details. This is the standard textbook for watchmaking schools, and any watchmaker who has been to a school since it was published has a copy and understands it all. That doesn't mean that they type out those 30 pages to answer a different question on a watch forum though.

Cheers, Al

 

I have to complement you Al on a far more reasoned and calm reply than I think I would have been capable of after reading that yowling cat screech of misguided criticism.

 

hey, wait a minute -- at Watchuseek we dont want this chump either.

looks like he really belongs in therolexforums.com

 

My mistake, I blame it on not enough caffeine, please accept my apologies.

 

Meh, I've seen this fawning over the forum leader in numerous forums over many years. The self proclaimed guru stakes out his patch and the rest of you treat him as a god. He ain't no god. He can't even answer the central question of horology. If he has the relevant textbook why didn't he quote the relevant passages? Most likely because he hasn't read those passages...

Al, you're quite wrong in your assertion that you answered Kobus' question usefully. You didn't! Which is why he went away confused. As for the rest of you Al worshipers: If you think he answered Kobus' question satisfactorily you clearly don't know the answer yourselves. You can have him! I don't want him and fortunately I don't need to rely on him for useful information.

I posted my rant: a) because I'm sick of people like Al claiming to know and claiming to help people when they actually just GET IN THE WAY, and b) to put the truth up here so that the next person that comes looking for the answer can actually find it!

Now go ahead and pat yourselves on the back and put me down. I don't give a rat's. Enjoy your pathetic little worship society.

 

Time for a little Martian cleanup on aisle 3.

 

You seem to have strong opinions on a forum that you just joined a few days ago, care to elaborate?

I have no interest in putting you down. Join the forum, get an avatar, continue to contribute. And act like an adult.

 

Looks like that may be wishful thinking.

 

The wheel is obviously powered by very small hamsters. Not sure where all this other nonsense is coming from.