Hi all,

I am fairly new to the forum ("born" today, if fact). I own this pocket watch, which I inherited a few months ago from a family member.

I have throughout these months compiled what I believed is a lot of info on it, but for some reason UG's seem a little hard to spot around, and their official page/support does not help much. In fact, this particular exact one I think I saw once or maybe not even once. It was in the very beginning of my research phase, and back then I knew nothing about pocket watches. Now compared to many of you, I still know almost nothing, but I believe I'm good at research, so I have piled a lot of info on it. My learning curve has been very steep, but very interesting, too.

Not 100% sure about the year, but believe to be 1970s (because of the logo and the serial number: 3231nnn. "n" represents numbers I have hidden for security and privacy issues). Probably early 70s. It is 18K solid yellow gold. Closed is 6mm, 5mm with the cover opened, but not sure about the movement thickness. It weighs about 48 grams, and its diameter is 40mm (50mm including Stem, Crown and Bow), being the dial about 31mm. I believe it has 17 jewels, maybe more (correct me pleaes, if you know I am wrong). As per inside cover mark, case maker is “Manufacture Favre & Perret SA”. Not 100% sure if it is part fo the Golden Shadow series, but it is very similar to them, both in look and time.

What do you think about it? Do you like it? Does the fact that it is very rare to see makes it much more valuable, or not necessarily?

I have attached a few photos of it.

Thanks!

 

that Universal Geneve script seems like it has been chiselled out. Some very obvious flaws in size characters and also looks a little wonky ! Saying that, the 70s-80s was not UGs greatest decade with obvuious decadence in design and quality.

However, I have my reservations about that case. The highest serial number range I have seen (old format) is in the 2.8 mil (which would place watch at around 1970). Your serial is well beyond that. Anything is possible as the 70s were a time of change but as with all investigations, there needs to be evidence to substantiate a claim (a similar model, documents, guarantees, catalog, images). Without any, it is heresay and claim has little or no substance.

Nice and expensive case as it is an 18K but considering facts and info provided, i dont think it is an original UG case. Please provide a movement shot.

 

Presumably the gold hallmark is dateable? Can't see a reason why someone would try to fake a UG pocket watch given the very limited market

 

Agree. But presume a gold Universal Geneve would be far more desirable than a run ofthe mill pocket watch.

The Hammer head (manufacturer) points to:

115 Manufacture Favre & Perret SA La Chaux-de-Fonds 21.07.1938

I have no idea of year of manufacture. However, style looks like 70s.

 

I think it is highly likely a genuine UG with the quirks of late UG off the production line in the 70s

Here is another Super thin UG pocket watch

https://www.etsy.com/listing/197671138/18k-gold-pocket-watch-universal-geneve

 

Duiabolik,

Everyone is entitled to its opinions, of course, but I stronglydisagree, and am 100% convinced it is authentic

This pocket watch was bought around the 70s or 80s. I know is from the 1970s, but not 100% sure when exactly was bought. I cannot pinpoint exactly as when, as I received it from my late godfather that passed away about a year ago, and later my aunt (his sister) gave it to me as he was single and had only two godsons. What I know is that is was bought from a very well-respected local jewelry (have also the jewellry's own box). Unfortunately they do not work Universal Geneve since many years back, and the owners back then are not around, so their feedback is limited-to-none. I have contacted Universal Geneve to gather additional tech info on this watch, but the email I tried [email protected] had not got a response, and their only contact info on their website (besides the address) is a Swiss phone that when called there is an answering machine (at least when i called). If someone in the forum has other means of contacting them, I'd appreciate it. Unfortunately I cannot contact Favre & Perret either, as they do not exist anymore, and anyway, I think they were absorbed by Swatch in 1999.

The exact date is not possible, but what I have estimated to be that one based on when the logo started to be used (around late 60s, early 70s, I believe) and estimating the progression based on other years UG's serial number chart (I am sure both of you have seen this reference a million times, but I attach anyway, in case someone else has not). If you notice the serial numbers are not totally consecutive, meaning that they mostly try to start a year with a rounded number. Based on that, and the logo as I mentioned, is from where I estimate its date. I also strongly base my conclusion on other similar UG units and their serial numbers. The engraving looks better with regular day light and a loupe. You have to consider that the photos are taken with a mobile, with reflection, and zoomed for detail.

Regarding similar units:

This is a very similar model that was listed a while ago over at ebay: Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Ultra-Thin-Universal-Geneve-Heavy-Mens-18k-Gold-Pocket-Watch-/391454142054?roken=cUgayN&nma=true&si=RYqcDZU4kCdVW%2B8%2B6gOpSJtL%2B%2BE%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network (auction is closed) and its serial number is 2449511 so I guess is from late 65 to early 66.

Another one a bit similar: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Auth-Universal-Geneve-Gold-Plated-Gold-Dial-Quartz-Pocket-Watch-4039-/232140231980?hash=item360ca2d52c:g:9xoAAOSw9NdXv7noPurchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network This one serial 3679085

This one has serial 31262140, is a different model but logo matches and is a very close serial number to mine: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Auth-UNIVERSAL-GENEVE-Hand-winding-Leather-Gold-Dial-Womens-Watch-3113/232140232003?_trksid=p5411.c100167.m2940&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20140131123730&meid=339579795f6140339156da2d74a9cf0a&pid=100167&rk=4&rkt=15&sd=232140231980Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network Serial: 31262140

Serial 3198722, many similarities, too: https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/11599354

This serial is very close to mine and the owner states is from the 70s: 3297554 https://auction.catawiki.com/kavels/4426363-universal-geneve-gilt-shadow-men-watch-70s1

This one has similarities, but serial is hidden: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reloj-de-bolsillo-Universal-Geneve-Cal-1-42-Manual-de-sello-original-de-condiciones-de-trabajo-/121833463530?_ul=BO&nma=true&si=RYqcDZU4kCdVW%2B8%2B6gOpSJtL%2B%2BE%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557Purchases made through these links may earn this site a commission from the eBay Partner Network

Since there is very little info further we cannot totally conclude an exact year based only on the number of units produced per year, but based on those units I could say almost with almost 100% certainty mine is from the 70s

In any case, Diabolik & Scepticalist, I appreciate your input., so thank you for having taken the time to give an opinion on the watch.

Sorry I cannot provide with a mechanism shot, as it is not an easy task as other pocket watches, and for this one it requires disassembling the unit from the dial section and, besides not having the expertise to do so, I do not want to risk damaging the watch.

 

The script it doesn't look something that UG, even in his worst times of pre-bankruptcy, would do

 

Which one? The one on the dial or the one engraved?

 

To me they both look fine and correspond to a watch made in the 70s-80s

 

Its hard to believe somebody went to all the effort to recase a plain pocket watch ? Maybe UG outsourced the swiss case, and added the Universal Geneva ?

 

gop76, thank you for taking the time.

But, if what you imply is that is not genuine, i have to disagree again. If you are referring to the inside marks, I have seen many many different styles in many different UG's watches, and many of them even without the UG words above the serial. Also, many with different embossing depth. If what you are referring to the dial face's logo, again it matches others i have seen. I agree the 70s and 80s might have been "obscure" years by UG in terms of some finishing or attention to detail, or even uniformity in a series. I also seriously doubt, as pointed above by Scepticalist that someone would take the effort to produce a copy in a market that is more limited for this brand than others.

As I mentioned before, I respect and I am grateful for anyone's opinion in any case.

 

The case is by Swiss case maker Manufacture Favre & Perret SA, as marked (115 inside a hammer head)

Apparently, the hammer and handle mark that was also used started in 1934 and lasted to 1966. The
Hammer head also started same date in 1934 and is registered till 2026.

 

What I am saying is that I am not convinced that the case is a UG produced case. It is swiss. What would be a possible explanation is that the watch movement is a UG and it was cases in a 18kt gold swiss case. The logo on dial is a late 60s early 70s and is genuine and it does not worry me in the least but the case inscription is a little dubbious at best ...



It could be that someone decided to engrave universal geneve on the case which would explain the irregularities. However, I am at odds why one would want to do that. I struggle to belive that UG were that bad even it their last days!

Please post an image of movement.

 

Yes, a movement shot would answer many questions.

 

Sorry I wish I could, but I cannot provide with a movement shot, as it is not at all an easy task as other pocket watches.

For this one it would require disassembling the unit from the front (dial section, there is not back cover that can be opened) and, besides not having the expertise to do so, nor the tools, I do not want to risk damaging the watch.

 

Here's a logo from a stainless steel back cover of an era wrist watch. It shares many similarities, look at the "E" and how badly stamped are the "N", "V" and "R"

 

That could be an option, that someone had it later on stamped, cannot say as I cannot consult with the original buyer.

In the photo above, also an original and very similar model, even no logo is imprinted, so that theory could be true, or simply they later on (the model in the photo is from mid 60s) in the 70s they added the logo.

I am a graphic designer and an option is that in my watch case they used a typeface trying to resemble a bold and outline similar to this effect:
but could not get it accurately enough as one thing is to print text with ink, and another very different one to achieve a similar result by trying to make a perfectly sharp text with thin-line engraving on metal.

 

The dial looks fine. My doubts are on the case scripts but, i agree, they share similarities with the one you posted

 

By the way, my serial number and what I believe must be case model or watch model number match exactly in typefaces with this extremely similar case. This model below is from 1965/1966. In both cases the casemaker's mark engraving (115 inside hammerhead) also match mine (Manufacture Favre & Perret SA.)