Forums Latest Members

Went Through D-Day, The Battle of the Bulge, and a Concentration Camp

  1. Jim Thoma Nov 1, 2019

    Posts
    17
    Likes
    28
    It was an Omega Swiss 15 Jewels, Serial Number 9897914. The case is inscribed Acier Inoxydable for stainless steel and with a case number of 2329 or 2319. There is so much that I know about it and so very little.[​IMG]
    It came from a box of possessions of Captain James Donald McQuigg, the son of a poor farmer; but a mind that embraced science and math. After many trials and tribulations he graduated from college. But in November of 1941 he enlisted in the US Air Force. But had to take the unwanted job of a high school science teacher before he was assigned a position in the US Air Force.
    [​IMG]
    But back is 1939 this Omega watch SN 9897914 had just been made. The same year that Jim entered college at Mt Vernon, Iowa. It was in 1942 the the USAF sent him to the university in Chicago where he studied meteorology. After that he was send to New Mexico and later North Carolina where he learned the practicalities of forecasting the weather and the ways of life in the Air Force. Finally in 1943 he was sent to England to help form the 21st Weather Squadron.
    [​IMG]
    And the case number 2319 implies that this watch case was made in 1943 and united with a 1939 movement. At least that what my research implies. Can anyone provide more information?

    Jim wore that mongrel Omega watch when the 21st Weather Squadron gave Eisenhower the nod for favorable weather on D-Day. And after the first waves successfully assaulted the Normandy coast, he and his new watch followed; forecasting the weather for the US Air Force pilots. He trudged across France and waved at the pretty girls in Paris. I think the watch must have ticked a few heartbeats faster when he became part of the Battle of the Bulge. And his mongrel watch must have died when he and his two man detached weather squad entered a newly deserted concentration camp.

    But he and the watch came home. He wore the watch on his wedding day. And served him again when he was called to active service during the Korean War. He went on to obtain his pHD in Meteorology and Climatologist and became a noted man in his chosen field. But I think he always loved that mongrel watch. He was too poor own one in his youth. His mother gave birth to her last child on Jim's high school graduation day. And he always loved his sister but told his mother that he would rather just had a watch for his graduation present.

    Can any one tell me more about the watch? It no longer runs having sat in a box for 35 years. So how much might it cost to get running?
     
  2. STANDY schizophrenic pizza orderer and watch collector Nov 1, 2019

    Posts
    16,311
    Likes
    44,718
    Can you give a close up of the numbers inside the case back

    @mac_omega is the one for these....
     
  3. VetPsychWars Wants to be in the club! Nov 1, 2019

    Posts
    2,326
    Likes
    1,862
    My watchmaker is charging me $500 plus parts for a 30T2 PC and has before for a Lemania manual wind.

    Tom
     
    Edited Nov 1, 2019
  4. Walrus Nov 1, 2019

    Posts
    8,916
    Likes
    41,908
    Whatever it costs to get fixed I think it’s history means enough to you that it is worth it. Bring it back to life, every time you look at it you have something to think on.
     
    mozartman, Njnjcfp88, chronos and 2 others like this.
  5. mac_omega Nov 2, 2019

    Posts
    3,162
    Likes
    6,700
    Hi Jim,

    welcome to the forum.
    You have done your homework and you already know a lot about this watch.
    Nice introduction and first post :thumbsup:

    IMO the watch is in very good condition and must have been cherished by Jim... all parts match, dial is in pretty good condition, original hands and crown. Movement does not look bad either. I think a good clean and fresh lubrication will make this watch run for another 75+ years.

    Find a trusted watchmaker who is familiar with vintage watches and it will not cost you a fortune to have it cleaned and lubed. If parts are needed they can be found on ebay (donor movement...).
    Let us know where you live and you will receive recommendations for a watchmaker in your region.
     
  6. Foo2rama Keeps his worms in a ball instead of a can. Nov 2, 2019

    Posts
    17,045
    Likes
    25,211
    1939 sold in the US, you would expect an OXG on the movement... about 1927-1965 right?
     
  7. chronos Nov 2, 2019

    Posts
    331
    Likes
    524
    Hi Jim, and welcome to the OF!
    Wow, what a first post, and what a great story! I would love listening to all the things my old watches witnessed, even if it's not at all that spectacular as what you've just told!
    Could you please share some insights about how you know all these interesting details? Was the previous owner a relative of yours and he told you all about it?

    Not that I don't belive it, not at all. It would just add to the magic of the watch knowing how you got all these details.
     
  8. Jim Thoma Nov 2, 2019

    Posts
    17
    Likes
    28
    I wish I could give the exact number. The one submitted was the best of the eight taken over two different days. It is either 2329 or 2319. I believe that the 2319 the the right number but I would bet very little on my being correct. At first I thought it was 2519 but after studying it for a long time under enlargement I decidedly concluding that it was a three for the second digit. How do I contact @mac_omega/2815?
     
  9. Jim Thoma Nov 2, 2019

    Posts
    17
    Likes
    28
    Outside of the value of a watch that was used to forecast the weather for D-Day what might be the value. Jim also had his father-in-laws 1913 19 jewell Waltham pocket watch with a white gold filled James Boss Keystone case. My watchmaker is charging me $200 for a day and half rebuild; but does not do Omega.
     
  10. Jim Thoma Nov 2, 2019

    Posts
    17
    Likes
    28
    I am counting down in another 24 days to my 70th birthday. Being retired my watch is a fitbit. I can get the history just by a clean and replacement watch band. It will end up with a grandson. And while the history will mean something to them to have their great grandfather's watch; having it in working order and wearing it might create a close bond to their Nana and g grandfather. Me, I am an old skinflint. By the way the original band was a leather one, if I remember correctly. I am fairly large and the largest of bands barely fit me. Jim was a larger man than me and his grandson James Tyler is larger still. So where does one get such bands?
     
  11. Jim Thoma Nov 2, 2019

    Posts
    17
    Likes
    28
    I live in Kingsport, TN 37663. My watchmaker never went to the Omega classes so he does not work on them. But he says there is a guy in Asheville, NC that could do it. Maybe you know of him or someone else.
     
  12. efauser I ♥ karma!!! Nov 2, 2019

    Posts
    8,644
    Likes
    14,210
    Welcome Jim and what a watch. Not trying to be pedantic but there was no USAF before 1947. He would have joined the US Army Air Forces (USAAF).
     
    Motik, GeorgeBailey2, felsby and 4 others like this.
  13. Jim Thoma Nov 2, 2019

    Posts
    17
    Likes
    28
    I got the 1939 from the serial number of the watch and compared it to an online reference. I don't think this watch was ever sold in the U.S. Jim was ready to graduate for Cornell College in Mount Vernon, IA and for some reason was recruited and joined the Air Force in Nov 1941. I know at that time that he did not own a watch. So while awaiting his posting he taught school. In 1942 he was quickly sent to meteorology school in Chicago. He may have been given the watch then. He finished the university in Chicago in 1942 and was posted to New Mexico for boots on the ground work in forecasting weather. In 1943 he was sent to North Carolina for training in weapons and study on aircraft. In 1943 he was posted to southern England and while he was there the 21st Weather Squadron was formed. By then he had the watch; although he may have had it earlier. I am pretty certain that he never purchased the watch but was it issued to him. After helping forecast the D-Day weather he was under detached command (himself and two enlistees). He trudged with the troops forecasting for what i believe was the 94th Air Group. He entered Paris, surrounded in the Battle of the Bulge; all the while using the watch to forecast for the bomber groups. He and his two men chanced upon a deserted concentration camp. He never said anything about it all the time that I knew him. Other than he was glad it was deserted because all he had was his side arm and the two guys with him had rifles. He never volunteered another thing and i never asked.

    So back the the case. The nearest case number 2318 was also known to be a military watch MI 2318 made in 1943 so I assumed that 2319 was also made in 1943. It could have been made earlier. I suspect the government bought anything they could get their hands on and Omega made and sold anything they had in stock. So with the mind of a mis-matched watch the case could have been made in 1942 because he could have received the watch while training in New Mexico in 1942.
     
    Mark020 likes this.
  14. DailyAdvancement Nov 2, 2019

    Posts
    42
    Likes
    39
    Lovely, if sombre, history to this timepiece, hope you have it fixed and give a copy of its history to the recommended watchmaker, sure they will appreciate and be passionate to restore it’s heartbeat. Best wishes.
     
  15. Jim Thoma Nov 2, 2019

    Posts
    17
    Likes
    28
    I married the weatherman's daughter! He wore that watch all the time that I knew him. So I know the stories about how a sharecropper's son was too poor afford a watch, let alone an Omega. The story of how he managed to go to college (the success story about how a family of five children of sharecropper parents received a college education and all became successful.) I know some stories that he told me directly but most came from his daughters. He worked for the government all but a few years of his life. But during that time received several other degrees and became world famous in the field of climatology.
     
    larryganz, marco, Vitezi and 2 others like this.
  16. Jim Thoma Nov 2, 2019

    Posts
    17
    Likes
    28
    Bingo, you got me on being pedantic and you are correct about the Air Force being part of the Army back then. But by the time of the Korean way it was the USAF.
     
  17. mac_omega Nov 2, 2019

    Posts
    3,162
    Likes
    6,700
    Jim, do not concentrate on "military" - as there are no issue markings it could well be a civilian version.
    As far as I can decipher from the blurry photo it most likely reads 2319 - I am pretty sure it is a CK 2319

    And if you do a google search several watches like your´s show up (various dials though but this is common as there are many dial variants):

    https://www.google.at/search?hs=j2a...lAhUPqYsKHYNIBxQQsAR6BAgJEAE&biw=1560&bih=758

    Try to provide a much clearer large in focus photo to confirm..
     
  18. mac_omega Nov 2, 2019

    Posts
    3,162
    Likes
    6,700
    Here is a very similar watch of ref 2319, only the minute track is different (and hands of course):

    29e7a2dfa787026f3830c520fb031152.jpg

    You can see that your watch has also the correct crown!
     
    murph, UncleBuck, chronoboy64 and 2 others like this.
  19. gatorcpa ΩF InvestiGator Staff Member Nov 2, 2019

    Posts
    12,168
    Likes
    15,628
    I think this is a Ref. 2319. Here is some information from Omega on the watch.

    https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/watch-omega-other-omega-mi-2319

    From what I have read, the main difference between the 2318 and 2319 is the case size. The 2319 case is 37mm to 38mm in diameter. This was considered huge for a watch back then.

    To my eyes, this doesn’t look like a military issued watch. Omega didn’t have a big presence in the US prior to WWII. Most sold here were cased in US made gold-filled or 14K watch cases. Military issued watches tend to have plain dials with large numerals and lots of radium for easy night vision. The US Army bought some watches from Omega after D-Day, but these were delivered in Europe.

    It is possible that your father-in-law obtained the watch in the UK when stationed there? From your story and information from Omega, the year 1943 seems to line up perfectly.

    Please listen to what @mac_omega has to say. He has written a book about these watches. My watchmaker (now retired) used to say that these older Omegas were so well made, they almost put themselves back together after servicing.

    Hopefully you received a good local recommendation for a watchmaker in NE Tennessee. You have a wonderful time capsule of a watch there.
    gatorcpa
     
    murph, BenBagbag, chronoboy64 and 2 others like this.
  20. Larry S Color Commentator for the Hyperbole. Nov 2, 2019

    Posts
    12,469
    Likes
    49,510
    I believe my watchmaker would charge me 250 - 400 to bring her back to life. Your Father In Law clearly loved this watch.