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Welcome to my nightmare
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marturx
·Reading these posts from Al is giving me the same warm and happy feeling as when I was visiting the candy store as a kid, with the weekly allowance burning in the pocket! 😀
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerIs that a 6497 base? If so, a spring is easily available and can't be more than $15-20. What on earth were they thinking?
I believe that special S mainspring shape is all to do with trying to get "constant" torque across all states of wind. Is that how you understand it, Al?
Very interesting, thanks. Chris
ETA 6497-2, and yes a very common spring that is widely available. This actually brings up another issue for those who work on vintage watches where branded mainsprings are no longer available and you have to find a generic substitute.
Often if you are trying to replace a mainspring in an old watch, you will measure the spring you took out, and buy a new one based on those measurements - this case illustrates the dangers of doing that. Now this is truly an extreme example of a far too strong spring, but if someone has replaced the spring that was originally in the watch years ago, and used something "close" because they could not find the exact same spring, say thicker by 1/100th you have now lost the original dimensions. If the next guy does the same, and then it comes to you and you do the same....well you end up with completely the wrong spring in the watch.
Very important to independently verify the mainspring dimensions wherever possible!
And yes, the idea behind the "S" shape is to provide constant torque across the length of the spring - as much as is possible anyway.
Cheers, Al
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerGot halfway through the post before I realized that is my Speedmaster. Happy to see that issue got resolved.
I'm kind of surprised the watch has been serviced at all. My guess is it was done by the original owner sometime back in the 90s. When the original owner passed away, the watch went to his son and then was sold to one of the son's coworkers. It sat in a drawer for a number of years before I bought it. Even after that, I didn't wear it much since I knew it was (over) due for service.
I wonder how much worse things would have been if I had actually worn it regularly (although the damage is already done, I guess).
Doh! I guess I should have emailed you before I put this post up...but you knew I was working on a solution anyway...now you can see the details before you get the formal documentation anyway. 😀
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerHaha.......heart palpations have settled now....i think 😟
Working on it right now actually...so far so good.
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nightowl
·"And an unusually large amount of swarf around the hole in the bridge for the barrel arbor"
Is it ok to do "that's what she said" jokes on this forum? No? Ok, I'll let myself out.
Is it ok to do "that's what she said" jokes on this forum? No? Ok, I'll let myself out.
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cimo
·Great thread, thanks for this! Interesting to see both what an aspiring amateur can avoid doing, and how he might spot problems with previous work.
A careful inspection appears to be the foundation of an effective service. Thanks for your insights.
A careful inspection appears to be the foundation of an effective service. Thanks for your insights.
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Maximus84
·For what it's worth, I shall echo the thanks mentioned by others. I'm continually (slowly) learning of all the intricacies involved in mechanical watches, and posts such as these provide helpful, interesting reading! Cheers!
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerHappy to hear you are enjoying these. For today we have an Omega Cal. 1120 that went to a local watchmaker with quite low prices...I know this because the owner contacted me first, then opted for the local guy.
Short time later, he emailed again and the watch was sent to me because after the local guy did his thing, it soon started to run erratically and lose time.
When I opened the case and inspected the oiling, it was so-so (some was okay and some not perfect but not horrible) and the reasons for the erratic timing were not apparent until I got to the escapement. Not often I take videos like this, but this was one where still shots could not tell the whole story, so sorry for the less than perfect video but this is shot through the eyepiece of my microscope, and then I slowed it down so you could see all the oil. I had to include stills of the pallet forks jewels and escape wheel - it is truly amazing that anyone who is a professional watchmaker could do this:
In the words of John McEnroe in his heyday, "You can NOT be SERIOUS!"
Oiling the escapement is a task that is quite important. Only a small amount of oil is used, and it is applied with a very fine tipped oiler - finer than a needle. I think this guy used something different to oil this one:
There is enough oil on this escapement to properly oil the escapements of maybe 30 watches...probably more...to illustrate what I mean I found this photo I took some time ago, and it shows how much oil should be there:
If you look closely where the escape wheel tooth is contacting the impulse plane of the pallet fork jewel, you can see a small little "wedge" of oil between the bottom of the tooth and the jewel. When you have applied enough oil to see that little wedge on each tooth as you move the pallet fork back and forth around the escape wheel once, you are done. That's it...the 1120 above had oil all over the face and all 4 sides of the jewels, running down to the metal part of the fork itself. The escape wheel teeth have large drops of oil up the teeth and laying all over the sides of the wheel...amazing...
Cheers, Al
Short time later, he emailed again and the watch was sent to me because after the local guy did his thing, it soon started to run erratically and lose time.
When I opened the case and inspected the oiling, it was so-so (some was okay and some not perfect but not horrible) and the reasons for the erratic timing were not apparent until I got to the escapement. Not often I take videos like this, but this was one where still shots could not tell the whole story, so sorry for the less than perfect video but this is shot through the eyepiece of my microscope, and then I slowed it down so you could see all the oil. I had to include stills of the pallet forks jewels and escape wheel - it is truly amazing that anyone who is a professional watchmaker could do this:
In the words of John McEnroe in his heyday, "You can NOT be SERIOUS!"
Oiling the escapement is a task that is quite important. Only a small amount of oil is used, and it is applied with a very fine tipped oiler - finer than a needle. I think this guy used something different to oil this one:
There is enough oil on this escapement to properly oil the escapements of maybe 30 watches...probably more...to illustrate what I mean I found this photo I took some time ago, and it shows how much oil should be there:
If you look closely where the escape wheel tooth is contacting the impulse plane of the pallet fork jewel, you can see a small little "wedge" of oil between the bottom of the tooth and the jewel. When you have applied enough oil to see that little wedge on each tooth as you move the pallet fork back and forth around the escape wheel once, you are done. That's it...the 1120 above had oil all over the face and all 4 sides of the jewels, running down to the metal part of the fork itself. The escape wheel teeth have large drops of oil up the teeth and laying all over the sides of the wheel...amazing...
Cheers, Al
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SpicyWatch
·I've seen you post in other forums. Are you located in Toronto?
I'd love to do business with you in the future! You do amazing work.
I'd love to do business with you in the future! You do amazing work.
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Jminchoi
·Al. thanks for sharing, your posts are very insightful! And a good lesson not to always use the cheapest bid and get things done right the first time. How much damage can be done by over oiling things? Can it ruin the movement?
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerI've seen you post in other forums. Are you located in Toronto?
I'd love to do business with you in the future! You do amazing work.
No I'm not in Toronto - you can contact me by PM if you like, but as I've already stated in this thread I already have far more work that I can handle...
Al. thanks for sharing, your posts are very insightful! And a good lesson not to always use the cheapest bid and get things done right the first time. How much damage can be done by over oiling things? Can it ruin the movement?
Ruining the movement is not really a big concern, but certainly over oiling can cause other issues that cause the watch to require service sooner than it should. I just finished another SMP GMT with a Cal. 1128 that had over oiling on a train wheel and this was the result:
It wasn't this second wheel that was oiled too much, it was the pivot of an adjacent wheel - as you can see here the teeth of this wheel pass very closely to the pivot of the third wheel. Too much oil on the third wheel pivot and it transferred to the teeth of the second wheel:
I guess in extreme cases of over oiling, if the oil reaches a place or feature on a part that will sort of suck the oil away from where it should be, it can leave the original oiling point dry, and allow wear to happen...
Cheers, Al
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ChrisN
·Another great pair of posts there Al, thanks from me as well.
I am pretty sure that my 2ml of 9415 would last me 50 years if it didn't have a 5 year shelf life. Mind you, I'm using a smaller oil can!😁
On that second one, how did he get so much oil in the jewel? Do you think he kept topping it up as it seems a hell of lot on the second wheel teeth?
Like I say, very interesting and always good to see these to improve my own methods.
Cheers, Chris
I am pretty sure that my 2ml of 9415 would last me 50 years if it didn't have a 5 year shelf life. Mind you, I'm using a smaller oil can!😁
On that second one, how did he get so much oil in the jewel? Do you think he kept topping it up as it seems a hell of lot on the second wheel teeth?
Like I say, very interesting and always good to see these to improve my own methods.
Cheers, Chris
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gostang9
·Love the educational posts! I love my mechanical watches and marvel at the intricacy behind them. Thank you so much for sharing a smidgen of your knowledge with us!
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Archer
··Omega Qualified WatchmakerAnother great pair of posts there Al, thanks from me as well.
I am pretty sure that my 2ml of 9415 would last me 50 years if it didn't have a 5 year shelf life. Mind you, I'm using a smaller oil can!😁
On that second one, how did he get so much oil in the jewel? Do you think he kept topping it up as it seems a hell of lot on the second wheel teeth?
Like I say, very interesting and always good to see these to improve my own methods.
Cheers, Chris
The well of the jewel was "full" of oil, so he used a lot!
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mahendralahari
·I have joined this site few days ago it's very interesting to learning like this kind of micro things
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JimInOz
··Melbourne AustraliaI'm sure @Archer and @Horlogerie would shudder if this ever came into their workshop.
"Sure, it needs two new jewels, let's see what I can do for you, pick it up next week."
"Sure, it needs two new jewels, let's see what I can do for you, pick it up next week."
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al128
·It's that why they call them Mumbai special? I've seen flywheels with 300k miles on them in better shape...
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