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Watchmaker damage

omega1994
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Hi all.

Just received a watch back from my watch maker. The replacement crystal is chipped internally at 5oclock. No biggie. This can be sorted. But also, see the before and after scratch to the dial.

Not feeling too great about this. My question for the OF is, how common / acceptable is this? Am I right to raise these issues with the WM?

Crystal issue:
IMG_7235.webp IMG_7236.webp IMG_7237.webp


Before scratch:

IMG_7239.webp IMG_7241.webp


After:

IMG_7238.webp IMG_7240.webp



Thanks as always guys. I won’t name the WM as I don’t believe in shaming for honest mistakes and they haven’t had a chance to talk to me about this.
 
omega1994
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Clearly not visible on dial with crystal freshly removed. How does a scratch like this even happen - reapplying the hands perhaps? Odd place for it to be…
Edited:
 
reggie_v
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If you’re not happy just take it back and tell them. If you can live with it live with it 🤷 that’s how I’d approach it.
 
omega1994
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On the crystal damage, I will ask for a replacement. What are peoples experiences here with minor watchmaker marks on dials?
 
gbesq
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I would ask them to replace the crystal at their expense. As for the dial, that can't be fixed unless you can find a donor dial. If you can, I think maybe you and the watchmaker could split 1/2 and 1/2 for the donor dial and install. If you can't find a donor dial, then ask the watchmaker to discount the bill or give you a credit for future services.
 
omega1994
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Dramatic macros aside, the watch looks like this:

IMG_7251.webp


Probably not worth replacing the whole dial over.
 
reggie_v
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Definitely wouldn’t let the dial scratch go. I wouldn’t expect that from any watch maker.
 
omega1994
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The watchmaker has essentially claimed the scratch is not them, their response:

“I am very sorry about the crystal. Of course you can send the watch back, and we will fit another crystal.
In terms of the dial, I have to say, that I didn't even touch the dial's surface, due to it's very bad condition, but of course,
we had to take it off, to make the watch working again, which it didn't, when it came in.

Overall I am not sure, as the dial is full of scratches anyway, if this one has been there before or not. In this case I would kindly
like to refer to paragraph 1 of our terms and condition, on which you have agreed, when booking the watch in.

I will now file a warranty return for you, so you can send the watch back, due to the damaged crystal, which we then will replace.”

Calling this dial full of scratches is a bit of a pisstake, no? Aged yes, but it didn’t have this mark on it before. And that’s evidenced by their own before and after photos?
 
Porteroso
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I would just send them the best 2 before and after photos. It is clearly a scratch that was not there before.
 
omega1994
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Sadly this puts me off vintage watches entirely. How common exactly is this sort of thing? What’s the point of this hobby if you can’t get these reliably serviced?
 
Deafboy
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The watchmaker's attitude is off-putting to say the least. Your pictures clearly show the evidence.
 
cristos71
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omega1994 omega1994
Sadly this puts me off vintage watches entirely. How common exactly is this sort of thing? What’s the point of this hobby if you can’t get these reliably serviced?
I've had a few similar experiences over the years, never good and can certainly give a fair bit of stress and irritation which in a hobby situation can feel like a lot more than it really is.

I have learned to accept that there is an element of risk when taking a vintage watch ( or any watch tbh ) to a watchmaker. People make mistakes and have accidents in all professions, but it's how these things are dealt with after the fact that is the important consideration here.

The first response of a WM generally seems to be, "Don't know anything about it...it wasn't me...it came in like that..." and the suchlike, even as in your case when shown the pictures of before and after there seems to be a tendency to deny the obvious. I've seen this myself and know of and have read about quite a few different WM's reacting in the same way. To be clear, that's not to say all WM's deny their mistakes, but that's what we are discussing here.

However this hasn't put me off using the same watchmaker for many years as the good work far, far exceeds the mistakes made.
 
bardamu
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Annoying answer of course, but is the watch working strong after the service?
As @cristos71 says, in the vintage world if you find a watchmaker who keeps your watches running well, you can maybe overlook a few mistakes —so long as it doesn’t happen too often...
 
ErichKeane
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Ok, as someone who is a bad watchmaker, my take 😁

It is actually possible to get damage like that on a dial just by handling it unfortunately. On older/damaged dials, the paint near the edges can be somewhat 'lifted' or delaminated off the metal, and just touching it causes it to flake off. I've noticed this on dials I've worked on (and seen touchups of other watchmakers who clearly ran into the same damage).

I WILL say the damage above looks exactly like what I've seen with that. So YES, they DID cause it to flake off, but frankly, I don't think it was avoidable. Just touching it causes this.
 
Archer
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What are the terms and conditions that they referred to?
 
omega1994
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Terms & Conditions

We will do our best to service and/or repair your watch, but nobody is perfect, and on rare occasions, we might damage your watch in the process of taking it apart, cleaning it, and putting it back together. Sometimes, hands are almost impossible to get off, so their removal can lead to hand and/or dial damage.
Another example are case backs that have been screwed down too tight, or whose thread has been damaged, so that it is almost impossible to open them. This can lead to the opening tool slipping, which can cause scratches on the case back.
As much as we try to avoid any damage, it can happen, and we can’t assume responsibility for it. We will try out best to make good, but it is not always possible to completely get rid of all damage caused.
 
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