Good day OF,

Recently, I had this exchange with a dealer/seller that left me feeling somewhat disappointed and perhaps even flustered.

Dealer/seller is quite reputable, and I mean quite reputable I mean he deals with Vintage Rolex/Rolex pieces quite often.
I had inquired about a watch that he was selling.

He specifically told me that the watch has not be serviced but it is running.

I asked for timegrapher readings but he replied that he didn't have one with him. Fine. (on hindsight I should have insisted on this)

After paying and receiving the watch, I was in absolute shock at the state of it.

1) I tried to wind it, it was hard to wind (suggests lack of lubrication/old stem/human cheese etc)

2) I pushed to wind it 10x, and dial facing up; it doesn't run at all, at 3 oclock (dial facing my body, it runs), at 6 o clock,(dial facing down to the floor it runs).

(further investigation leads me to believe the balance staff is broken and the jewels might have cracked and popped out.

3) I took it to my timegrapher and there was no beat when the dial was facing up. At 3 oclock/90 degrees, it was running about 700+-, 160 amp and 7.8 Beat error

I went back to texting the dealer/seller and he insisted that I know this was the state of the watch when I bought it.

His exact words were "It is running good in that it runs I said it needs a service and it is not keeping time to my knowledge"

I further explained that it is not even running at all with the dial facing up. It DOES run when its facing 3 o clock/90 degrees and when its facing down.

He continued to reiterate that it has not been serviced.

My issue is that I bought it thinking it was running but his continued reiteration was that it has not been serviced.

I went to my watchmaker immediately the next day, and my watchmaker said the watch has likely never been serviced in his 50-60 years of use.

What did I do wrong here?

 

I'm not sure why his "dealing in vintage Rolex" automatically indicates that he is reputable.

 

If he said this, although he's bending the truth using "dealer speak", I would have expected the watch to need a service straight away.

 

Timegrapher is not going to tell you squat about how good a movement has been serviced.

Did you pay less than going rate for a serviced running example ?

 

Actually paid a premium due to the dial/case/insert condition.

 

I don't wish to name him because alot of big names/dealers in US know him and bought from him so, I would think he's quite reputable at least.

 

TBH, I did ask for a discount so I could include the service fees into it; but he flatly refused and quoted that shipping to where I was at; will b 250 USD

 

While it may leave a bad taste in the mouth, it could be argued that you got what you agreed to pay for, a nice looking watch in need of a service. Now the level of internal damage is a concern and a reputable dealer, or even an honest amateur wouldn’t want to sell you a money pit. I know I wouldn’t.

I think you should name the seller here, not because of a witch hunt or anything but so that others can go into deals with him with their eyes open. If on here he may wish to comment but as I say, I don’t see that you have been scammed, just been the victim of a seller who puts profit first.

 

Definitely. I think the saving grace is that the watch came exactly as described cosmetically

It isn't my purpose to name/shame the dealer/seller; but rather what would you do if you were in my situation and how can I prevent this from happening to me ever again.

 

I've bought numerous watches before that mechanically were poorer than described. Ultimately if I loved the way it looked, and a service could sort the issues, i considered this a blip rather than a huge issue.

I'd like to know who it was though as it's another example of vintage watch dealers wanting to add their margin without actually adding the value they should.

 

To avoid this I think all you can do is look for watches that the seller claims are healthy and/or recently serviced. At least this way a timegrapher can give some indication and you have some come back. You are asking for trouble if he says it is in need of one as nearly anything could be wrong including missing or bodged parts.

Like David above, I too buy poorly watches but I mentally allow for a big budget to fix it when making my calculation on whether it is good deal. Often it is not. I would be wary of a dealer selling a poorly watch since he can inevitably get it fixed cheaper than you can so why hasn’t he?

 

Why is there a silly “ not going to shame them “ but you want us to help you not do this again

It needs a service and it runs upside down. Technically he’s right

Last time I worry about anyone that has a problem but won’t name the dealer.

Your actually paying more allegiance to the dealer than your mates here.

( nothing against you just the constant not going to shame him )

 

Agreed it wasn't a deal breaker but it definitely took the sheen off what I thought was a great and legit transaction.

I paid a premium for the watch and I would just have to suck it up and just bite the bullet for the service fees.

Also after informing him of the service cost, i asked him if he could cover 50 % of the service fees.

He obligedly agreed and mentioned that he's doing it because he's nice.

I don't quite know how to respond but thanked him nonetheless.

I feel like I owed him in his tone to me.

 

On the few very rare occasions where I purchased a watch over the internet and therefore without handling it I always assume it'll need a complete service when it arrives. I've always been proven right.

He didn't lie, it runs and its unserviced. It's what makes purchasing remotely such a friggin minefield.

If he was really honest and reputable he'd likely be willing to rethink the deal and work with you a bit, but there are a lot of greaseballs out there and they all appear honest at first. He was possibly selling the piece as is because he figured it was a money pit and just wanted to make a quick buck off of it.

 

Maybe I missed something here. Your watchmaker feels the watch had not been previously serviced. Is the movement broken or... not running due to old lubricant , soil, etc, etc. ?. If the movement needs a lube and tune ( a 100k mile service) I am not sure you have a legitimate gripe here. The dealer said it would need a service. You may have assumed the service would be a modest one, not a complete disassembly and cleaning.
In these type of situations I think we all hope for the best and plan for the worst.

I just scanned this thread again to see if I missed something. He refunded you half the service cost!. Quit while you are ahead. Oh, and name this dealer. Not to shame, but to allow members to be informed when dealing with him.

 

People who feel obliged to state that they are being nice, usually aren't.

 

Sadly I’ve learned that even if someone is known to be reputable, and might even say the watch was completely serviced, it still very likely will need a service upon arrival. Guess we all have to factor that into the price we agreed to pay.

 

To me, if the seller says it's "running" that means all functions work, not just in some positions. Describing this watch as running is less than honest, and I would avoid this dealer. You keep saying the dealer is reputable, but this is not the action of a reputable dealer. Being in business for a while doesn't automatically make someone reputable.

 

I agree with others' sentiments in that you're being way too forgiving and accommodating. You state that you were told that the watch "has not been serviced but it is running." Once you received the watch, it became evident that it doesn't run when the dial is up.

He was flat out negligent is his description to you to the point of being deceitful. Then he acts as if he's doing you a favor by paying 50% of a service, just to get the damn thing to operate, because he's "nice" on a watch you paid a premium to acquire?

Name him and shame him if for no other reason that to help the rest of us avoid this guy.

 

Does he claim it wasn't running when it was by him? I can imagine a watch that hasn't been serviced for 50 years may not do to well while in transit. I wouldn't be surprised if it conked out in the box...

I sold a watch that I know badly needed a service, so I mentioned that it is currently running but because it really needs a service, I can't even guarantee that it will be running on arrival, and to treat this as-is for repair.