Watch Case problem

prostie1200 · Oct 12, 2019

This watch has a centre sweep hand but the depth of the back case will not accomodate the movement it is too
shallow. You will notice the centre sweep gearing is not in place, I have a spare movement which the appropriate gearing will be canibalised to provide and complete the movement.
I have a deep affection for this watch and wish to see it completed before I fall off my perch.
I have thought long about a solution - if I have the back case depth increased by having a see through crystal with a deep enough curve to give a depth which would make it work.
Does anyone on the forum know of a company or individual which would be able to make the alterations needed.
Thanks in anticipation.

redpcar · Oct 12, 2019

If originality is out the window, why not just attach an acrylic crystal to the back? Like you see on some old sales samples or the Competition watch. Just take some measurements and snap it over the lip. ☕

Canuck · Oct 12, 2019

The drive wheel for the centre sweep seconds pinion fits higher if it is installed wrong side up. Try flipping the drive wheel over and re-fit it. Be certain it is fully down, then try fitting the back again.

redpcar · Oct 12, 2019

I was assuming that the movement original to the case was not a center second therefore the entire center second assembly is too tall for the case back to accommodate. 🤔

Canuck · Oct 12, 2019

Now that I look more closely at the movement, it appears as though it is a “marriage” of parts. The drive wheel for the centre seconds pinion fits on an extended top pivot of the third wheel. I have posted a picture of the movement of the subject watch. The blue arrow points at the top pivot of the third wheel where the drive wheel of the centre sweep seconds pinion fits. THERE IS NO EXTENDED PIVOT for the drive wheel to fit on! The watch doesn’t have a calibre marked on it, but it appears to me as though it is a sub second movement with an incorrect top bridge, centre second pinion bridge, centre second model centre wheel, a centre second model dial, and second hand. There is something very wrong with this picture, and perhaps this is the reason the case back doesn’t fit. If this is an important watch which is to be preserved, there are a number of decisions that have to be made before this project can be successfully completed. As it is right now, the centre sweep seconds hand will NOT function!

JimInOz · Oct 13, 2019

The case is for a 2271-2 which should house a caliber 30T2 (a sub-seconds caliber). I suspect that some creative work has been performed on the movement.

What is the caliber marking under the balance?

Canuck · Oct 13, 2019

JimInOz
The case is for a 2271-2 which should house a caliber 30T2 (a sub-seconds caliber). I suspect that some creative work has been performed on the movement.

What is the caliber marking under the balance?

+1

Canuck · Oct 13, 2019

prostie1200
This watch has a centre sweep hand but the depth of the back case will not accomodate the movement it is too
shallow. You will notice the centre sweep gearing is not in place, I have a spare movement which the appropriate gearing will be canibalised to provide and complete the movement.

Reading between the lines here, I suspect your experience in the servicing of antique and vintage watches might be insufficient for you to judge whether marrying parts from two watches and putting them into the case shown in the post might be possible. The movement shown in this thread is a marriage of parts from two similar movements. Who was the genius that thought such a marriage would work? And who is to say the other movement you have is not likewise the result of some genius tinkering with it?

redpcar · Oct 13, 2019

Tinkering is fine. Just don't try to sell it as anything but a collection of parts. 😀

prostie1200 · Oct 13, 2019

The information you all have provided has set me to dicover the caliber etc., I bought this watch because of the most unusual and to my eye beautiful
dial - Under the balance wheel I have established the Caliber is 30 T2 SC PC and the case number is 2217 2W , the serial number is 10851036.
I do not think the movement is a marriage of parts but it is maybe in the wrong case.

prostie1200 · Oct 13, 2019

Oh by the way I have no intention of selling it.

mac_omega · Oct 13, 2019

prostie1200
The information you all have provided has set me to dicover the caliber etc., I bought this watch because of the most unusual and to my eye beautiful
dial - Under the balance wheel I have established the Caliber is 30 T2 SC PC and the case number is 2217 2W , the serial number is 10851036.
I do not think the movement is a marriage of parts but it is maybe in the wrong case.

Yes, this is correct!

mac_omega · Oct 13, 2019

Canuck
Now that I look more closely at the movement, it appears as though it is a “marriage” of parts. The drive wheel for the centre seconds pinion fits on an extended top pivot of the third wheel. I have posted a picture of the movement of the subject watch. The blue arrow points at the top pivot of the third wheel where the drive wheel of the centre sweep seconds pinion fits. THERE IS NO EXTENDED PIVOT for the drive wheel to fit on! The watch doesn’t have a calibre marked on it, but it appears to me as though it is a sub second movement with an incorrect top bridge, centre second pinion bridge, centre second model centre wheel, a centre second model dial, and second hand. There is something very wrong with this picture, and perhaps this is the reason the case back doesn’t fit. If this is an important watch which is to be preserved, there are a number of decisions that have to be made before this project can be successfully completed. As it is right now, the centre sweep seconds hand will NOT function!

Sorry to contradict.

It is a correct centre second movement - the only part which is missing is the drive wheel.

See the comparison of a sub-second and a centre-second 30 T2:

Compare the position of serial number and the inscriptions - all are OK with the OP´s movement for an 30 T2 SC (only the driving wheel is missing as already mentioned).

The movement is in a wrong case (for a sub-second - as Tony mentioned) - hence there is not enough space for the movement when complete.

Canuck · Oct 13, 2019

mac_omega
Sorry to contradict.

It is a correct centre second movement - the only part which is missing is the drive wheel.

Pray tell then. Please refer to my post which shows a picture of the subject movement on which I included the callout in the form of an arrow. Where exactly is the extended top pivot which the drive wheel is pressed onto. Is the extended pivot there, or is it not?

ChrisN · Oct 13, 2019

I don't see an extended pivot either... probably has the wrong 3rd wheel. Good spot @Canuck and I know it's obvious to some of us but not everyone will notice that.

Cheers, Chris

Canuck · Oct 13, 2019

ChrisN
I don't see an extended pivot either... probably has the wrong 3rd wheel. Good spot @Canuck and I know it's obvious to some of us but not everyone will notice that.

Cheers, Chris

This movement is made up with a dog from every town. With no extended pivot on the top of the third wheel to carry the sweep seconds drive wheel, this would probably mean the movement should have a subsidiary seconds hand on an extended pivot of the fourth wheel to carry the seconds hand. But if there is an extended pivot on the fourth wheel behind the dial, how on earth did they get the dial on? Maybe they ground off the extended pivot on the fourth wheel that would normally carry a subsidiary seconds hand? Genius at work! I think the OP is wasting their time trying to make any sense out of this louse.

JimInOz · Oct 13, 2019

I think it would be easier to find a correct case for a 30T2SC and use that (once the movement has been fixed).

Canuck · Oct 13, 2019

JimInOz
The case is for a 2271-2 which should house a caliber 30T2 (a sub-seconds caliber). I suspect that some creative work has been performed on the movement.

What is the caliber marking under the balance?

That might solve part of the problem. there may be enough parts on the two Omegas to make one of either a sub second, or a sweep second model. But the dial on the subject watch is for a centre sweep hand, not a sub second hand. And the case is for a sub second model. I am oh so happy this is not my problem to sort out!. Let’s admit it. This watch is a Frankenstein!

Archer · Oct 14, 2019

mac_omega
Sorry to contradict.

It is a correct centre second movement - the only part which is missing is the drive wheel.

See the comparison of a sub-second and a centre-second 30 T2:

Compare the position of serial number and the inscriptions - all are OK with the OP´s movement for an 30 T2 SC (only the driving wheel is missing as already mentioned).

The movement is in a wrong case (for a sub-second - as Tony mentioned) - hence there is not enough space for the movement when complete.

I agree this is likely a center seconds movement, but with a missing drive wheel and extended pivot from the third wheel. Most likely the pivot has been broken off, taking the drive wheel with it.

Canuck · Oct 14, 2019

Could it be that some genius tried to force the case back to fit over the movement, taking the extended third wheel pivot and drive wheel with it? The extended pivots on the third wheels of watches that have indirect sweep second drive mechanisms are very subject to breaking off when handled by tinkers.

Watch Case problem

prostie1200

redpcar

Canuck

redpcar

Canuck

JimInOz

Canuck

Canuck

redpcar

prostie1200

prostie1200

mac_omega

mac_omega

Canuck

ChrisN

Canuck

JimInOz

Canuck

Archer

Canuck

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