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Want to buy Submariner Rolex 116610LN - where to get retail price?
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Speedmasterfan88
路Well that's all very disappointing. There is no way I am paying over retail price, especially from one of these places that is acting as an unnecessary middleman and driving the prices up for everyone else. Guess I will look into used or keep my eyes out over the next few years for an AD that will sell at retail.
Doesn't make any sense why Rolex just doesn't increase production to keep the watches on the ADs shelves to meet demand and sell at retail all day long and increase their profits by moving more volume.
Rolex produces enough, they are just not rolling it out to the AD's. This phase will pass, just be patient.
We will see what Rolex's master plan is behind this, but in the long run models will be available at retail again. For whom and from where, that's the question.
If I were you, I'd just hold my cash for now and wait a year or two longer.
Cheers,
Max
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radoncdoc
路One of the reasons I want a new watch is change in bezel material. As noted also improved SS. But agree, I would imagine they have seen a significant increase in their profit margin.
I am still baffled why they just don't increase production to match demand. Yes, the scarcity of them has made them more desirable and allowed them to increase the price. But it's not like they would have to reduce the price if they upped production.
Perhaps this was part of their strategy. Keep them off the shelves and make most of new purchases come from gray market with prices over MSRP. Slowly raise MSRP. Once new MSRP is "locked in," increase production so anyone can walk into an AD and buy a sub for $10k vs. $5k 15 years ago. Stupid.
I am still baffled why they just don't increase production to match demand. Yes, the scarcity of them has made them more desirable and allowed them to increase the price. But it's not like they would have to reduce the price if they upped production.
Perhaps this was part of their strategy. Keep them off the shelves and make most of new purchases come from gray market with prices over MSRP. Slowly raise MSRP. Once new MSRP is "locked in," increase production so anyone can walk into an AD and buy a sub for $10k vs. $5k 15 years ago. Stupid.
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ac106
路Rolex appears to have very shrewdly realized that in this day and age, mechanical watches are a positional good (goods valued according to how they are distributed in the population, and not by how many of those goods there are in total) and are leveraging the Veblen effect to drive up profit per unit in a way that more than offsets the profit forgone from selling fewer units. I remember when I was first starting my career, the Sub was the go to, "just go my first real bonus check" watch for new analysts. Those who considered themselves to be connoisseurs might go for a Speedy Pro instead 馃榾 . Seeing as how a new Sub now appears to sell for upward of $9K online, I wondered if maybe my memory was faulty. Nope, turns out the list price for a new Sub in 2000 was only ~$3K. That's ~$4.5K in today's dollars. So, Rolex has achieved a 100%+ increase in the real market price of one of their most popular models. I seriously doubt that they are seeing volumes that are down 50% relative to what they would have been at the old $4.5K price.
Good for Rolex. Not as good for would-be Rolex buyers I guess.
They aren't making any additional profits on watches sold above market by re-sellers.
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time flies
路One of the reasons I want a new watch is change in bezel material. As noted also improved SS. But agree, I would imagine they have seen a significant increase in their profit margin.
I am still baffled why they just don't increase production to match demand. Yes, the scarcity of them has made them more desirable and allowed them to increase the price. But it's not like they would have to reduce the price if they upped production.
Perhaps this was part of their strategy. Keep them off the shelves and make most of new purchases come from gray market with prices over MSRP. Slowly raise MSRP. Once new MSRP is "locked in," increase production so anyone can walk into an AD and buy a sub for $10k vs. $5k 15 years ago. Stupid.
have fun
kfw
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ac106
路Rolex produces enough, they are just not rolling it out to the AD's. This phase will pass, just be patient.
We will see what Rolex's master plan is behind this, but in the long run models will be available at retail again. For whom and from where, that's the question.
If I were you, I'd just hold my cash for now and wait a year or two longer.
Cheers,
Max
Wait, you know this? Rolex is sitting like Smaug on 1M sport watches over the last 3 years. There hasnt been a decrease in production, they are all in a warehouse in Geneva?
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radoncdoc
路Wait, you know this? Rolex is sitting like Smaug on 1M sport watches over the last 3 years. There hasnt been a decrease in production, they are all in a warehouse in Geneva?
Yeah. The number of watches on gray market websites and ebay certainly doesn't add up. So either production is down or they are banking them like the diamond industry does. It's certainly possible.
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larryganz
路But unlike diamonds, these watches have oil鈥榮 that dry up over time and once they sell them the longevity may be reduced. So I鈥檓 not entirely convinced of this scenario.
I do, however, see how they could increase the MSRP 10% a year for a few years, since the Grey market price is catching buyers, and then ramp production back up so that your every day person can get one at retail (which would have taken a big leap in a short time).
Maybe then, with the increase production to meet the demand, there won鈥檛 be enough gray market sellers to snatch them all up and jack the prices up another 10 to 20%, while Rolex is swimming in a 30% increase in revenue.
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many
路Rolex produces enough, they are just not rolling it out to the AD's.
So where do you think these watches are going?
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cgaites
路They aren't making any additional profits on watches sold above market by re-sellers.
True, but when the market price (actual transactions outside the official distribution channels) continually exceeds MSRP over a long period of time it provides cover for the manufacture to raise MSRP gradually to something more inline with the observed market price. In my opinion, this is how Rolex has managed to get the MSRP on a Sub from $3000 in 2000 to $8550 today (both for the date version). As I mentioned in my first post, inflation alone would have only taken the MSRP to $4500 over that time period all else equal.
Very similar dynamic is at play with Porsche GT cars for those who are familiar with that market.
Again, not bashing Rolex here. Good on them (and Porsche).
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ac106
路True, but when the market price (actual transactions outside the official distribution channels) continually exceeds MSRP over a long period of time it provides cover for the manufacture to raise MSRP gradually to something more inline with the observed market price. In my opinion, this is how Rolex has managed to get the MSRP on a Sub from $3000 in 2000 to $8550 today (both for the date version). As I mentioned in my first post, inflation alone would have only taken the MSRP to $4500 over that time period all else equal.
Again, not bashing Rolex here. Good on them.
I postulated this theory earlier in the thread. This could simply be a long con by Rolex to get the price of a Sub to 10-12k, GMT Master to 12k-14k and a steel Daytona to 20k. ( or whatever )
Limiting supply conditions their customers to pay significantly over book. Once the masses are used to paying these prices on the secondary market, Rolex can easily raise their prices to match. It鈥檚 a good a theory as any.
Would really like to believe they鈥檙e prepping a whole new line of moments and they鈥檙e just trying to burn stock and prepare for the changeover but I really think they鈥檙e too much of evil bastards for something that simple
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Foo2rama
路路Nowhere near as grumpy as he used to be...So where do you think these watches are going?
At first the excuse was gearing up and building the Rolex version of Metas, and the additional factory space and equipment. Then Rolex was not denying a new movement in the works, which was odd as if they where not you would think they would have denied it.
No one knows, it鈥檚 a mystery why they are not making and selling them.
Currently it looks like a play to raise prices... but at this point we would have seen more movement on the MSRP.
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Speedmasterfan88
路@many @Foo2rama
I should've been more clear or rephrase my statementm to that "they could produce enough".
Fact is, they aren't rolling out any watches to the AD's at the moment and I strongly believe they are forcing this artificially.
I don't buy their BS over manufacturing problems or what else etc.
They are bottlenecking the market atm, if it's by just staking them at their HQ or by slowing down production, who knows.
Cheers,
Max
I should've been more clear or rephrase my statementm to that "they could produce enough".
Fact is, they aren't rolling out any watches to the AD's at the moment and I strongly believe they are forcing this artificially.
I don't buy their BS over manufacturing problems or what else etc.
They are bottlenecking the market atm, if it's by just staking them at their HQ or by slowing down production, who knows.
Cheers,
Max
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Davidt
路I've said this before - and possibly I'm wrong, but I don't believe it's just lower production. All these grey market subs are coming from somewhere.
It's more likely ADs are receiving less stock from Rolex and so are maximising profitability by forcing normal customers to buy other models in order to get one, or simply selling them direct to grey market flippers. Selling to greys is hassle free for them and they can possibly sell above retain or also tag on a couple of dress watches.
It's more likely ADs are receiving less stock from Rolex and so are maximising profitability by forcing normal customers to buy other models in order to get one, or simply selling them direct to grey market flippers. Selling to greys is hassle free for them and they can possibly sell above retain or also tag on a couple of dress watches.
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radoncdoc
路I called my local dealer who kindly told me they did not have one in stock but would "place an order with Rolex for me" and let me know when it arrives. Based on what I've learned for this thread, I expected them to laugh at my inquiry, so this was a pleasant surprise. They informed me they sell at retail price ($8550). Even with tax, it's less than the $9800 they go for on gray market. I will post back if/when one comes in for me.
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Traveler
路馃嵖
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Jerseyhammer
路Option is to buy out of your country and get tax refund at airport etc . I find airport duty free is often the best for new models ..but best value is main jewellers pre owned
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Jerseyhammer
路I meant to say recent example OM AT new duty free at airport 拢3,300 , or 拢4k in high street. Preowned 2018 same model , face etc, box and papers ( warranty still valid ) 拢2,900 ...plus you can negotiate . Worth thinking about
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Uniqez
路I think this OP should also read this : https://omegaforums.net/threads/stainless-sports-rolex-dealer-stock.70656/
16 pages of "shocking" details))))))))
16 pages of "shocking" details))))))))
