Vostok 2409 identification help needed

mseamaster · Aug 14, 2024

Today a relative gave me this nice Vostok. I don't have any other USSR watches and don't know much about them.

It says 2409 on the back. Is this the model or the movement? A forum I found on the web says it's the movement but I am not sure.

The lug says AU20. I believe AU stands for gold. However I think it's most likely gold plated and not solid.(or gold filled?)

The winding sound and feel is really smooth and sounds nice. So buttery. It feels like my Omega 131.019. I think I won't service it. It's just running too well.

Crown is unsigned.The dial has nice stripes. I wonder if there are different dials like with Seiko or just one dial per model. The crystal is a bit scratched.

The dial text looks a bit.. weird. Could it be a redial?

What do you think? I also wonder when it was made.

sci · Aug 14, 2024

A very nice Vostok. The number 2409 is the movement. It is in production since the 1970-ties and still produced today:
https://vostokinc.com/machinery/24/mehanizm_2409/
It looks something like this from the inside:
https://www.russian-watches.info/sh...echanical-watch-vostok-gold-plated-ussr-1971/

And AU20 means 20 micron gold plated (very thick plating, it was well worn to have it thinned so much on the lugs). If you polish the glass and clean the case it will look like new (yet I assume yours is 40+ years old).

mseamaster · Aug 14, 2024

S sci
A very nice Vostok. The number 2409 is the movement. It is in production since the 1970-ties and still produced today:
https://vostokinc.com/machinery/24/mehanizm_2409/
It looks something like this from the inside:
https://www.russian-watches.info/sh...echanical-watch-vostok-gold-plated-ussr-1971/

And AU20 means 20 micron gold plated (very thick plating, it was well worn to have it thinned so much on the lugs). If you polish the glass and clean the case it will look like new (yet I assume yours is 40+ years old).

Thanks for the link.

It must be at least 40 years old. Afaik it stayed in a box since at least the 80s.

Sad about the strap, it had decomposed badly so I removed it. Buckle wasn't signed. Thick genuine leather though. No idea if that was the stock strap. It looked DIY.

What do you think about the movement itself? I am surprised they kept producing a manual model after quartz dominated everything. I also wonder why exactly 17 jewels and not more?

Is it like an entry level model? Or maybe like mid?

Btw it doesn't hack and you can't stop the seconds like on Omega by turning the crown back when setting time.

ghce · Aug 14, 2024

https://mroatman.wixsite.com/watches-of-the-ussr/vostok

Have a browse thru this website, bound to find your own one on here somewhere.

I often use this site as a reference for dating them.

mseamaster · Aug 14, 2024

ghce
https://mroatman.wixsite.com/watches-of-the-ussr/vostok

Have a browse thru this website, bound to find your own one on here somewhere.

I often use this site as a reference for dating them.

Thanks a lot.

It's this one:
Vostok / Восток
Caliber: 2409A (17 jewels)
Model: 503254
Year: 1960s
Notes: Chistopol Watch Factory

Is the 1960s correct, though? Wasn't the movement newer?

https://vostokamphibiacccp.altervista.org/2409-2/

Says end of 60s and 70s. Apparently it's a bro to my KS/GS, haha. Same years. Wouldn't have guessed that.

Deafboy · Aug 14, 2024

mseamaster
The dial text looks a bit.. weird. Could it be a redial?

Vintage Vostok tend to be like that. I don't think it's a sign of redial.

Here's mine with the cal. 2809

mseamaster · Aug 14, 2024

Deafboy
Vintage Vostok tend to be like that. I don't think it's a sign of redial.

Here's mine with the cal. 2809

I see. Thanks. Btw how accurate are these movements if regulated?

Deafboy · Aug 15, 2024

mseamaster
I see. Thanks. Btw how accurate are these movements if regulated?

That's a good question. It depends on how you define "accurate" and "regulated". 😀

Here's my experience with a grand total of two soviet era wristwatches.
I chose the 2809 movement because it was the precision movement the soviets made in the 1960's. It's based on the Zenith 135 precision movement. The two watches I purchased on ebay came after months of looking at listings of watches. The grand majority of these 60-year-old watches were in not good condition: parts missing on the movement, swapped parts, bad dial condition, bad case condition, bad movement condition, etc. Despite all that effort, I feel I lucked out of finding two watches in good condition.
That said, I do have experience servicing my own wristwatches, mainly 1930's American-made Hamiltons, and also several 1950's and 1960's Swiss watches. Although I could get the Soviet watchesI work after regular dismantling, cleaning, reassembly and lubrication, they were nowhere near precision watches in terms of timekeeping performance. Both required extensive adjustment of hairspring shape, regulator pins separation, and balance wheel poising to get good timekeeping performance. So yes, they probably left the factory as precision watches, but I don't think the watches were designed to work with precision decades later with soviet-era economic realities.

So it's basically a crap-shoot if you want accuracy from a soviet-era watch.
Btw, most of my 1960's Longines will easily outperform my two 1960's 2809.

Bernhard J · Aug 15, 2024

Deafboy
Although I could get the Soviet watchesI work after regular dismantling, cleaning, reassembly and lubrication, they were nowhere near precision watches in terms of timekeeping performance. Both required extensive adjustment of hairspring shape, regulator pins separation, and balance wheel poising to get good timekeeping performance. So yes, they probably left the factory as precision watches, but I don't think the watches were designed to work with precision decades later with soviet-era economic realities.

I respectfully disagree. One of my "dailys" is a Vostok Amphibia, 70s or 80s. I gave it a service once, decades ago, without any further adjustments, and it still runs today with high precision in all positions and with high amplitude. That means correcting for about 1 minute every 2-3 weeks. That seems quite impressive, even in comparison with modern Rolex and the like.

It probably depends on whether some lesser skilled persons have attempted to service the movements before. Since these watches are quite cheap, nobody would have brought them to a skilled watchmaker for service.

Of course, do not confuse post 1990 watches made for tourists with "the real things". These late "tourist"-watches were indeed quite a crap.

P.S.: Your 2809 ist lovely!

sci · Aug 15, 2024

The 24xx caliber came to replace the 22xx caliber at Vostok somewhere around the middle of the 1970-ties. It is the base caliber of many relatives, like 2414 (handwind with date), 2415 (automatic without date), 2416 (automatic with date). My first watch ever is a Vostok with 2414 movement (yours but with date) which I got from my grand dad iin 1985. Serviced once. Runs perfectly.

One of my daily (dirty work) watches is a Vostok Komandirskie K02 with 2416 movement (31 jewels - 21 in the movement, 10 in the reverse wheels of the automatic module), which runs +2 sec/day - produced in 2021:

The 17 jewels is a standard for full-jeweled handwind watch calibers, not without this reason one of the big movement archive web sites bear this name - https://17jewels.info/
Vostok is a classical manufacturer which is more "inhouse" than 90% of the watchmakers - they not only make their movements, but for the classic lines - Amphibia and Komandirskie, they produce inhouse the cases, crystals, hands and dials (practically whole watch). The only thing they never did is the straps and the bracelets. Btw 0 most of the USSR watches were sold without strap, so the one that desintegrate wasn't the original anyway.

mseamaster · Aug 15, 2024

S sci
The 24xx caliber came to replace the 22xx caliber at Vostok somewhere around the middle of the 1970-ties. It is the base caliber of many relatives, like 2414 (handwind with date), 2415 (automatic without date), 2416 (automatic with date). My first watch ever is a Vostok with 2414 movement (yours but with date) which I got from my grand dad iin 1985. Serviced once. Runs perfectly.

One of my daily (dirty work) watches is a Vostok Komandirskie K02 with 2416 movement (31 jewels - 21 in the movement, 10 in the reverse wheels of the automatic module), which runs +2 sec/day - produced in 2021:

The 17 jewels is a standard for full-jeweled handwind watch calibers, not without this reason one of the big movement archive web sites bear this name - https://17jewels.info/
Vostok is a classical manufacturer which is more "inhouse" than 90% of the watchmakers - they not only make their movements, but for the classic lines - Amphibia and Komandirskie, they produce inhouse the cases, crystals, hands and dials (practically whole watch). The only thing they never did is the straps and the bracelets. Btw 0 most of the USSR watches were sold without strap, so the one that desintegrate wasn't the original anyway.

Thanks for the additional info, the buckle was in such a bad condition I didn't save it, and afterwards thought: what if maybe it was signed or something? But now I know there are no original buckles.

But, why does it say that the movement appeared in the end of the 60s?

It also makes me curious why did they kept producing mechanical watches if they were purely focused on low production cost. Wouldn't it have made more sense to go quartz in the 80s?

Btw I will measure my own watch to see how accurate it is, but.. I can't set the seconds since it doesn't hack and I can't stop them with turning the crown back.

Any idea how to se the time accurately?
Right now I am thinking to just wait for the watch to unwind itself and then to shake it at the exact moment when the time is correct and to start winding it.

sci · Aug 15, 2024

The movement is not from the 1960-ties, as at that time Vostok was using 22xx caliber mostly. In the 1970-ties the two lines 22xx and 24xx movements were produced in parallel for some time. According to this history, the 24 caliber was introduced first in 1972:
https://vostokamphibia.com/history-of-chistopol-watch-factory/
In a Vostok catalog from 1976 you can still see the two movement families used together:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8653....pdf?rlkey=wa2mbug1k7njnho0ryrkip3ia&e=1&dl=0

Measuring accuracy is easy - just do it the other way round: write down the time your watch is showing when it is 00 seconds on your reference clock. The check again 24, 48, etc hours later.

And a point about the price - the Vostok watches look rediculously inexpensive today, but related to the income levels in USSR it wasn't that inexpensive at all. If we assume a salary of an engineer of 120-180RUB, a Vostok watch with price tag of 40-50RUB wasn't that cheap. And on top of that the price of the goods wasn't defined following the free economics principles, but was regulated by the state maiing the essential goods more affordable.

mseamaster · Aug 15, 2024

S sci
The movement is not from the 1960-ties, as at that time Vostok was using 22xx caliber mostly. In the 1970-ties the two lines 22xx and 24xx movements were produced in parallel for some time. According to this history, the 24 caliber was introduced first in 1972:
https://vostokamphibia.com/history-of-chistopol-watch-factory/
In a Vostok catalog from 1976 you can still see the two movement families used together:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8653....pdf?rlkey=wa2mbug1k7njnho0ryrkip3ia&e=1&dl=0

Measuring accuracy is easy - just do it the other way round: write down the time your watch is showing when it is 00 seconds on your reference clock. The check again 24, 48, etc hours later.

And a point about the price - the Vostok watches look rediculously inexpensive today, but related to the income levels in USSR it wasn't that inexpensive at all. If we assume a salary of an engineer of 120-180RUB, a Vostok watch with price tag of 40-50RUB wasn't that cheap. And on top of that the price of the goods wasn't defined following the free economics principles, but was regulated by the state maiing the essential goods more affordable.

Thanks for the catalog. There's no pricing in it. Bur given your comment it's understandable.

There are no solid gold/silver options. I wonder if it was seen as a bourgeois if you wanted one. Though silver should have been fine if gold was too capitalistic... then again why do gold plated if you don't like gold.

Yet, some people in USSR must have had golden jewelery, hmmm. But maybe they didn't wear ir openly in fear of repercussions.

Would be even funnier if Vostok had another catalog just for party members. 😀

Btw based on your comment, even if a solid gold watch would cost say 200 RUB, I don't see why a determined watch collector wouldn't spend a whole wage on it and some more.

sci · Aug 15, 2024

But of course there were precious metal models, and they were quite popular. However it was considered to have a Swiss or Japanese watch even in steel as more prestigeous. Here some gold models from Vostok, Poljot, Raketa und Luch :
http://www.netgrafik.ch/golden_watches.htm
And this one is even with 2409 movement like yours:
http://www.netgrafik.ch/golden_watches3.htm

mseamaster · Aug 15, 2024

S sci
But of course there were precious metal models, and they were quite popular. However it was considered to have a Swiss or Japanese watch even in steel as more prestigeous. Here some gold models from Vostok, Poljot, Raketa und Luch :
http://www.netgrafik.ch/golden_watches.htm
And this one is even with 2409 movement like yours:
http://www.netgrafik.ch/golden_watches3.htm

Super nice! I never knew about it. I've seen many USSR watches(in bad condition) sold at flea markets.. but never something like this.. I have therefore only seen crap.

I was surprised even by the one given to me since it looked nice and was working. But these ones in solid gold... something else.

My impression came from this:
http://klimat-ua.com/en/article/istoriya_kondicionirovaniya_vozduha

Saying air conditioning is for bourgeois, I would have thought it was the same for gold.

As for prestige, wouldn't USSR 18K > SS Seiko/Timex?

sci · Aug 15, 2024

Seiko and Orient seen as higher-end than any USSR watch; Omega, Rado, Longines were universally recognized as luxury watches. Certina, Candino, Tissot somewhere in between. Rolex as a separate category synonime to "a watch costing a fortune". Casio and Seiko as the top digitals during the hype in the end of 80-ties. Timex was not popular.

mseamaster · Aug 15, 2024

S sci
Seiko and Orient seen as higher-end than any USSR watch; Omega, Rado, Longines were universally recognized as luxury watches. Certina, Candino, Tissot somewhere in between. Rolex as a separate category synonime to "a watch costing a fortune". Casio and Seiko as the top digitals during the hype in the end of 80-ties. Timex was not popular.

True in general.. but wouldn't 18K br considered special? I can't imagine someone trading a 18K Vostok for a random Seiko 5.