Unfortunately I was scammed through a trade last year with 'vintage_kronos' (instagram handle). Janez Grom (PayPal name). He appears to be an 'established collector' too which made it all the more disappointing.

1. He traded me an 'fully functional and all original omega seamaster turler dial chronograph cal 321', that was both a redial (that I didnt notice at the time, stupid me) and also a terrible movement that did not work, and required extensive replacement parts and expensive repairs

2. I attempted to contact him multiple times through multiple different channels when I realised point 1 above. I received no response. Only when I resorted to publicly calling him out for this scam on another forum, did a receive a response via email.

He's actually threatened me with legal action, suing for defamation and blackmail - pretty laughable since A. I am the one that has been scammed, and B. I am not asking/expecting money in these 'scammer alert' posts - which is the requirement of blackmail. He's also stated publicly I've been trying to extort him for money, which is also untrue - and indeed actually publicly defamatory on my character.

Anyway in summary - an extremely frustrating set of events, and I suggest you avoid dealings with him!

 

@admins let me know if this should've gone in the 'list scammers here thread'!

 

Sorry to hear what happened to you and thank you for posting here.

 

Thanks! Appreciate the support!

 

Hi there, i suppose this is the transaction you’re referring to?
http://www.chronocentric.com/forums/chronotrader/index.cgi?page=1;md=read;id=84284

 

So, just to clarify the facts:

1) vintage_kronos sent you a watch + money by wire. He didn't underdeclare value as you asked him to, so you paid more than you wanted in taxes
2) You had time to inspect said watch.
3) You sent him yours (since it was a trade)
4) You later realized what he sent was a redial and had movement issues, and had no agreed upon recourse in case anything went wrong
5) You want to be compensated for the cost of fixing the movement
6) Of course he didn't agree to anything like that beforehand, and with the kind of money involved here, he's refused to.

Welp.

Think everyone has accidentally bought something that had issues (redials, etc.). I did before as well. Sucks when it does, and you hope that you don't lose too much money over it. And it's an awful feeling. But it's definitely one of those mistakes that most don't repeat, since you learn to put zero stock into a seller's description and evaluate for yourself.

 

Sorry missed this response - thanks for your advice. I totally agree, live and learn, as you pointed out many of us get burnt and the aim is to not get burnt again!

Just a few comments from me;

TLDR: I would respectfully strongly disagree with your point that any trader/seller needs to have a 'pre-established agreement' to financially compensate (or return) in the case where the description was misleading or incorrect.

Re: your point 1. not sure why my counterpart has raised this, I was always fine with paying import taxes, and he was trying to claim (self-defensively) that I was aiming to exort money out of him, which is completely untrue - but a way to attempt to save face I suppose. I've purchased many many watches internationally and have paid taxes without issues.

Re: your point 4. and point 6. you'll find in most countries (highly likely the one you live in, certainly mine and Janez Grom's in the EU) there are consumer laws on sales, that also cover private transactions, even for 'trades'. If the seller (or trader) advertises a watch that is A. 'all original' and B. 'working perfectly' and neither of these points are true, I would absolutely be entitled to sue this person for damages if he refuses to compensate or reverse the transaction. This is of course never going to happen over just a lowly internet forum watch trade, but still worth pointing out.

Re: your point 4. and point 6. Agreed that I should've researched the redial more, but it was impossible for me to tell that movement was also not working with multiple non-visible parts needing replacement. I would respectfully strongly disagree with your point that any trader/seller needs to have a 'pre-established agreement' to financially compensate (or return) in the case where the description was misleading or incorrect. As an analogy, if you bought a TV off ebay (or any product) that was listed as fully functional, and it arrived not functional at all, you would absolutely be entitled to a refund or compensation even if the seller stated 'no returns and no refunds'.

Obviously the reality is we're all just on internet forums though and there's little practical avenue for recourse, hence the negative feedback I've publicly provided! At the end of the day, I've just lost a lot of money - which as you've pointed out, is an awful feeling. Just trying to share this negative experience so it doesn't happen to anyone else hopefully with this guy! =)

 

correct! see my comments right above for more details.

to be honest (maybe I'm crazy or just living in an odd bubble where ethics actually exists), I was pretty surprised there was any debate in Chronotrader over this transaction as a scam.

Unless people think I'm lying (hence why I tried to provide lots of screenshots of messages) - I don't see how someone providing a false description of a watch being both 'all original' and 'working perfectly', both being untrue, is anything except for a scam.

 

I hope I am not coming across as combative, because it's not my intention and I've been in your shoes and know how much it sucks.

Anyway, didn't mean to suggest a pre-established agreement is necessary in all cases; just pointed that out in this case to clarify details.

Hopefully you've been able to enjoy the watch after getting the movement and dial sorted out.

 

Oh not at all! I also hope I'm not coming off as combative either, appreciate the viewpoints mate.

And thanks, I have enjoyed it =)