Vintage Seamaster Advice (Potential Overpayment)

Omegapool · Jan 23, 2020

Hi Everyone,

Complete newbie here after a little advice following a quite impulsive purchase of a Vintage Seamaster 166.020 with 565 calibre movement circa 1966.

The watch looks to be in excellent condition, has been serviced by Omega and is provided with their paperwork and remaining 24 month warranty. It also looks like it has been fitted with a new branded strap. In a bid to avoid any fakes, scams or other issues, I bought from a reputable jeweller in my area. However having browsed this forum after buying, I am quite concerned that I may have paid well over the odds as it cost me £1450 and having seen some of the posts on here it seems that a more realistic price may have been around £500 to £600.

Luckily I still have time to return the watch as it has not been delivered yet, so any advice or guidance on whether or not I have made a major mistake would be greatly appreciated.

One final thing when putting the 166.020 case number in it often mentions Seamaster Deville. The watch I have bought does not have Deville on the face. I read that it was common for them to have one or the other printed on the face in the early 60's but the article I read hinted that by mid to late 60's both names should have been shown. If anyone could shed light on that minor issue I would also be very grateful.

Pics from the website below. Actual pics can follow once it arrives in a day or so if needed.

efauser · Jan 23, 2020

You overpaid. Consider it penance for not researching here first.

KingCrouchy · Jan 23, 2020

You definitely overpaid, this is not a Ref.166020, could be a Ref.166002. For the price you have the advantage of having two years of Warranty.

Omegapool · Jan 23, 2020

efauser
You overpaid. Consider it penance for not researching here first.

Thanks for the reply. Luckily I found the forum in time to rectify the situation and get a refund.

Taking into consideration the service and strap how much do you think I have overpaid by?

The jeweller may be willing to do a partial refund rather than lose the full sale but it would be handy to know roughly what I should be looking to pay in the first place.

DaveK · Jan 23, 2020

It can also been said that you may soon forget overpaying for an authentic and properly serviced watch that should provide enjoyment for many many years. I’m not an authority by any means, but it looks like Omega did as expected and put on new hands etc, possibly diminishing the vintage collector value, but providing you with a reliable timekeeper.

Feel encouraged to post your researched watch prospects here for input prior to a next purchase. Many pay this “noob tax” so don’t feel bad. Read all the sticky threads here, especially learn how to fish https://omegaforums.net/forums/vintage-omega-watches-help-discussion-and-advice.23/

tpatta · Jan 23, 2020

efauser
You overpaid. Consider it penance for not researching here first.

What he said !!!!

This is the same way I ended up here 6 years ago. If you can still cancel the sale, go for it. With the money you put back in your pocket you will be able to purchase 2 nice pieces from some of the great sellers on this forum.

efauser · Jan 23, 2020

Omegapool
Thanks for the reply. Luckily I found the forum in time to rectify the situation and get a refund.

Taking into consideration the service and strap how much do you think I have overpaid by?

The jeweller may be willing to do a partial refund rather than lose the full sale but it would be handy to know roughly what I should be looking to pay in the first place.

At least two times.

Omegapool · Jan 23, 2020

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

Think I will take a look at the watch once it arrives and then see if I can negotiate a partial refund although 50% might be pushing my luck slightly.

Thankfully I have learnt a valuable lesson about not being impulsive and making sure I do my research without it hitting me in the pocket.

With regards to buying watches through the site can you recommend any reputable sellers who may have vintage seamasters in a similar condition? I am based in the UK if that helps.

cvalue13 · Jan 23, 2020

Omegapool
Thanks for all the replies everyone.

Think I will take a look at the watch once it arrives and then see if I can negotiate a partial refund although 50% might be pushing my luck slightly.

Thankfully I have learnt a valuable lesson about not being impulsive and making sure I do my research without it hitting me in the pocket.

With regards to buying watches through the site can you recommend any reputable sellers who may have vintage seamasters in a similar condition? I am based in the UK if that helps.

You might inquire around here what it will cost to get an omega service on this watch (if you were to find an alternative buy that is cheaper but that has not been recently serviced). Same goes for considering what the warranty offers, and its value to you given your intended use, etc.

May or may not be a 50% discounted needed to make you feel whole?

aprax · Jan 24, 2020

DaveK
t can also been said that you may soon forget overpaying for an authentic and properly serviced watch that should provide enjoyment for many many years. I’m not an authority by any means, but it looks like Omega did as expected and put on new hands etc, possibly diminishing the vintage collector value, but providing you with a reliable timekeeper.

Well, that's debatable. IMO it is a redial, so not much authenticity there, even if it is a quite professional one (The OMEGA font is wrong for the 60s, the Seamaster logo is a modern one with a high crossed t). And the case is quite polished.

Edit: Bottom line from my perspective: Even with 50% off it would be a no go.

Omegapool · Jan 24, 2020

cvalue13
You might inquire around here what it will cost to get an omega service on this watch (if you were to find an alternative buy that is cheaper but that has not been recently serviced). Same goes for considering what the warranty offers, and its value to you given your intended use, etc.

May or may not be a 50% discounted needed to make you feel whole?

I haven't asked on here but going off the Omega website the prices started from £360. Cheapest online I seen the strap for was around £100 but not from Omega themselves.

I was intending to use the watch on a daily basis for work rather than sporadically as a dress piece. So the warranty would provide some piece of mind for if the watch was to stop working for whatever reason.

If the market value is approx £700 then with the above costs it feels like I might have only overpaid by a few hundred to £500 max. Although if the £700 is the valuIe for a serviced watch with warranty then obviously I have massively overpaid still.

If I could potentially knock them down to around the £1000 mark then given the above I'd probably be happy.

Omegapool · Jan 24, 2020

aprax
Well, that's debatable. IMO it is a redial, so not much authenticity there, even if it is a quite professional one (The OMEGA font is wrong for the 60s, the Seamaster logo is a modern one with a high crossed t). And the case is quite polished.

Edit: Bottom line from my perspective: Even with 50% off it would be a no go.

Apologies if this sounds stupid but if it has had a redial, new hands as someone else suggested and is coming fitted with a new strap then what if anything is likely to be original to the watch?

The movement and case?

If so I'd be inclined to agree with you that there isn't much "vintage" or authentic about it.

aprax · Jan 24, 2020

Omegapool
Apologies if this sounds stupid but if it has had a redial, new hands as someone else suggested and is coming fitted with a new strap then what if anything is likely to be original to the watch?

The movement and case?

If so I'd be inclined to agree with you that there isn't much "vintage" or authentic about it.

That's how I see it. And another thing: If it really says 166.020 on the case back, then the redial problem gets worse, because then you would expect an applied metal Omega script.

Omegapool · Jan 24, 2020

aprax
That's how I see it. And another thing: If it really says 166.020 on the case back, then the redial problem gets worse, because then you would expect an applied metal Omega script.

That was from the website description the watch should be delivered today or tomorrow so I can check and confirm. Although taking onboard all the advise that has been given I am thinking I will return it and get the money back. I can then do a lot more reasearch and reading on here before deciding on what I want.

One thing though if ebay and the like are full of fakes and cons, jewellers are massively overpriced then where is the best place to look for and buy the vintage models from?

padders · Jan 24, 2020

aprax
Well, that's debatable. IMO it is a redial, so not much authenticity there, even if it is a quite professional one (The OMEGA font is wrong for the 60s, the Seamaster logo is a modern one with a high crossed t). And the case is quite polished.

Edit: Bottom line from my perspective: Even with 50% off it would be a no go.

Not quite. That’s not a redial in the normal sense of a repainted original dial. That is the current factory replacement dial for certain 1960s Seamasters, it was likely fitted during an official or authorised service (eg OSC or STS) at extra cost. As noted the font is later so it’s not a like for like swap. It’s still not a good thing but the seller could claim legitimately that it has been serviced with genuine parts, just not on a way a collector would like.

I am seeing some buyers remorse here. By all means return it but dealers have to eat so to expect something like this at a private sale forum price is not sensible. As already noted, the main lesson is to do your research before you purchase. Buy this and you lose 2/3 of your money as soon as it arrives. There are models in the current catalogue where the same applies so it’s not like he is trying to rob you, just exploit the buyers ignorance.

timecube · Jan 24, 2020

I believe the standard answer they give you here on Omega Forums is

The best place to look for and buy a vintage Omega watch is on Omega Forums!

😉

Now....
the For Sale-by-dealer forum
https://omegaforums.net/forums/watches-for-sale/
and For Sale-by-anyone-else forum
https://omegaforums.net/forums/private-watch-sales/
are a little bit tricky for a newcomer to navigate.

Until you have 200+ posts under your belt you can't directly respond to any of those threads.
What you CAN do is send a private message to any of the sellers, and work something out through there.
I haven't bought or sold anything there myself, but I suspect due to the integrity of the community here it is likely you would be able to find a decent watch at a decent price, with decent surety.

There are plenty of meta-discussions about "For Sale" threads and subforums postings and listings if you're interested. Look for stickied threads to get a better sense of what's what.

DJG2645 · Jan 24, 2020

Omegapool
That was from the website description the watch should be delivered today or tomorrow so I can check and confirm. Although taking onboard all the advise that has been given I am thinking I will return it and get the money back. I can then do a lot more reasearch and reading on here before deciding on what I want.

One thing though if ebay and the like are full of fakes and cons, jewellers are massively overpriced then where is the best place to look for and buy the vintage models from?

Hi there,

I also consider myself a newbie, so just sharing my recent experiences, I joined here a while ago, read all the threads on how to fish, redials, overhalls, terminology (which was valuable), some threads I have read a few times as there is loads to remember. Then I got brave and reached out to the vintage forum for advise on Seamasters I had found and thought to look ok and well - that is where this forum and the experts come into their own. Their advice is hugely valuable, detailed and they don't make you feel foolish, they guide you and help you with your education and in turn help you from over paying for the wrong watch (I was looking for a genuine vintage to wear on special occassions).

I got lucky and an existing user contacted me and was willing to give up a Seamaster from his collection to get me started 😁 he also got me to reach out ot the experts for their optinion on both watch and price and after masses of reassurance from the forum I took the plunge and my beautiful Seamaster arrived earlier this week and I can't stop wearing it!

So my advice is have patience, learn through here and ask for advice (be as detailed as you can and include good pic's) and you will get there for sure! Hope this helps to give you encouragement. I am also UK based so you'll find your right watch.

Cheers,
Dave

Omegapool · Jan 24, 2020

padders
Not quite. That’s not a redial in the normal sense of a repainted original dial. That is the current factory replacement dial for certain 1960s Seamasters, it was likely fitted during an official or authorised service (eg OSC or STS) at extra cost. As noted the font is later so it’s not a like for like swap. It’s still not a good thing but the seller could claim legitimately that it has been serviced with genuine parts, just not on a way a collector would like.

I am seeing some buyers remorse here. By all means return it but dealers have to eat so to expect something like this at a private sale forum price is not sensible. As already noted, the main lesson is to do your research before you purchase. Buy this and you lose 2/3 of your money as soon as it arrives. There are models in the current catalogue where the same applies so it’s not like he is trying to rob you, just exploit the buyers ignorance.

Thanks for the reply. Not remorse per se and I still haven't commited to definitely returning the watch as it hasnt arrived and I haven't yet had a hands on look at it. I was more concerned that I had made a major mistake as I didn't find the forum until after the purchase. I definitely appreciate that people need to earn a living as I have had first hand experience of working in an industry where people want everything for free. I also expect to pay more as I went to a jewellers rather than privately.

I think what I am wanting to establish is what would be a reasonable price given the facts of the sale. Condition, redial, Omega service with 2 year warranty, new strap, bought from a respected jeweller. If say £1000 is what would be expected and reasonable then I can make an informed decision on how to proceed.

padders · Jan 24, 2020

Omegapool
Thanks for the reply. Not remorse per se and I still haven't commited to definitely returning the watch as it hasnt arrived and I haven't yet had a hands on look at it. I was more concerned that I had made a major mistake as I didn't find the forum until after the purchase. I definitely appreciate that people need to earn a living as I have had first hand experience of working in an industry where people want everything for free. I also expect to pay more as I went to a jewellers rather than privately.

I think what I am wanting to establish is what would be a reasonable price given the facts of the sale. Condition, redial, Omega service with 2 year warranty, new strap, bought from a respected jeweller. If say £1000 is what would be expected and reasonable then I can make an informed decision on how to proceed.

A sensible approach. A watch like that might struggle to make £500 on here due to the replacement dial. It might make more like £750 on ebay due to the shiny shiny factor which appeals to some buyers there and where there would be less awareness of the replacement parts. It is still an attractive piece after all.

Someone, maybe the dealer maybe not, has spent the thick end of £500 servicing that and replacing the dial if it was done the way I suspect. You could argue therefore a fair dealer price would be the £500 true value, plus the £500 service cost plus a notional profit. On that basis your £1K figure looks about right, low even. This is partly why many of is steer clear of dealers and closet dealers.

ps for reference here is what the original dial for that model looked like, this is the non date but is from exactly the same Seamaster model 16X.0002 otherwise. I happen to have a damaged one, note how the fonts are subtly different to yours:

Omegapool · Jan 24, 2020

DJG2645
Hi there,

I also consider myself a newbie, so just sharing my recent experiences, I joined here a while ago, read all the threads on how to fish, redials, overhalls, terminology (which was valuable), some threads I have read a few times as there is loads to remember. Then I got brave and reached out to the vintage forum for advise on Seamasters I had found and thought to look ok and well - that is where this forum and the experts come into their own. Their advice is hugely valuable, detailed and they don't make you feel foolish, they guide you and help you with your education and in turn help you from over paying for the wrong watch (I was looking for a genuine vintage to wear on special occassions).

I got lucky and an existing user contacted me and was willing to give up a Seamaster from his collection to get me started 😁 he also got me to reach out ot the experts for their optinion on both watch and price and after masses of reassurance from the forum I took the plunge and my beautiful Seamaster arrived earlier this week and I can't stop wearing it!

So my advice is have patience, learn through here and ask for advice (be as detailed as you can and include good pic's) and you will get there for sure! Hope this helps to give you encouragement. I am also UK based so you'll find your right watch.

Cheers,
Dave

Thanks for the reply Dave. Sounds like that is exactly the thing I need to be doing. I will definitely be sticking around these boards and doing my research prior to anymore purchases regardless of whether or not I keep this particular watch. Think yesterday's decision was brought about by the inexperience, lack of knowledge and ignorance alluded to by the other users. I wasn't even aware that vintage watches would be sold with redials as like I said doesnt seem to be vintage then.

On the plus side we all have to start somewhere and I won't be making the same mistake twice.

Vintage Seamaster Advice (Potential Overpayment)

Omegapool

efauser

KingCrouchy

Omegapool

DaveK

tpatta

efauser

Omegapool

cvalue13

aprax

Omegapool

Omegapool

aprax

Omegapool

padders

timecube

DJG2645

Omegapool

padders

Omegapool

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